What happens about the unvaccinated ?

[vera99]

There is a lot of speculation about how many will buy into the continuing vaccination program. Some has said 20% won't but I'm sure it will be less than that. We don't know any would be refuseniks. But say it's 10% and suppose Covid will become stronger and therefore potentially more lethal and troublesome will that not lead to many more deaths and hospitalisations amongst this cohort and by doing so threaten the capacity of the hospital's once again ? Hopefully not of course does anyone know of any modelling around that outcome. Therapeutics of course will be of importance to lessen any resultant disease and persuading the currently unpersuaded remains of paramount importance. The stick of no vaccine no travel or no entry will be a great persuader no doubt as well.

@reformedcharacters

Parker231

reform - I’m 100% in favour of vaccine passports

Supporting vaccine passports is indeed supporting forced/coerced medical treatment.

that would be the case If no alternative was provided but most companies that are requesting the proof of vaccination are also accepting tests to proof that you're negative.

EasterIssland

Only until it’s been offered to all, then the choice will be removed.

It’s up to the U.K. government to decide whether you will need to quarantine on returning from another country or go to a quarantine hotel. It’s the country you want to travel to who will determine whether you need a vaccination passport.

Parker231

Vaccine passports are being considered for domestic use also.

@reformedcharacters I think it’s very unlikely they will be brought in for domestic use given the comments in the parliamentary debate. There is recognition that it would create a two-tier society and discriminate against some minority groups who are showing less inclination to be vaccinated.

I do hope people would be aware of the issues of implementing such a thing though and would speak out against it if it did come up for consideration. The response of some people on MN is quite worrying but I don’t think the majority feel that way. The problem is whether or not people stay silent and just let things happen.

bumbleymummy

If you read the government’s request for evidence it’s clear they are being seriously considered.

I know they are being considered to enable people to prove their status for international travel to countries that may require it. This is because other countries require it though and we need to be able to provide U.K. citizens with the proof they need for travel. (Putting aside the idea that it should really be about immunity rather than vaccine status anyway)

The idea of needing it domestically was shot down several times -and rightly so!

Yes it was shot down by those debating the issue but it is being considered as part of the review.

Let’s not forget how many MPs opposed restrictions on the right to peaceful protest yet it happened.

lightand

Bythemillpond
The majority of people who have recovered have immunity for 6-8+ months

I think it is longer than that.
I know dd had it in December 2019 and was still immune in February 2021
How are you able to tell please

Before Christmas she was working (closely) with a group of people when one of them tested positive for Covid. They had hugged and kissed each other daily (they were friends). Everyone was sent home and advised to get tested. All tested positive for Covid except dd and one other girl who had Covid a couple of months before.

Similar happened in February. Again dd got tested and went into isolation and tested again. All negative tests

Ah ok, thanks.

@lightand

"Bythemillpond
The majority of people who have recovered have immunity for 6-8+ months

I think it is longer than that.
I know dd had it in December 2019 and was still immune in February 2021
How are you able to tell please?

I looked up getting an antibody test, and I dont think I can have one as I dont work for eg the health service."

£39 from www.testingforall.org

Great. Thank you for finding that.

Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee
Tuesday 23 March 2021

www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/d98a0039-ccad-466e-aff2-d48879e47aec

Again the overwhelming majority in agreement that ‘vaccine certification’ is a very bad idea and potentially dangerous due to the misconception amongst the vaccinated that they are safe. Also noted that given the leaks to the press it looks like this review might be lip service and the government will press on with its worrying abuse of power.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics

We’re that far down the rabbit hole we have forgotten we have fallen in.

This is no longer a free country.

@bumbleymummy

Yes, I know studies are being undertaken. Of course it makes sense for people to be vaccinated - if that’s what they want. I just don’t think that natural immunity after recovery should be presented as ‘inferior’ at the moment when actually we know more about it than we do about vaccine induced immunity and all evidence to date has shown that it’s actually very effective - at preventing further infection, and transmission (see earlier link).

The fact that so many people have recovered after infection - including children - and are now contributing to herd immunity as well as our high level of vaccine uptake is a good thing. We don’t have to think of this as one vs the other.

Well said @bumbleymummy I'm part of the UK Covidence study - they have already discovered that some people actually have antibodies beyond a year after infection.

My antibody test unfortunately came back negative, so what I thought was covid either wasn't, or it was just too long from infection to test.

I also had an interesting email exchange with Professor Adrian Martineau after I received my results, and he explained that the more severe the infection, the higher (and in some cases, longer lasting) the antibody levels, and memory cell protection (not currently measured in antibody tests). And that memory cell protection (can't recall if it was T or B cell) can exist even with mild infections (and let's not forget that latest figures are:45% of covid infections are asymptomatic, ie mild; and that some people will have immunity to/protection from covid from other corona infections).

As you rightly point out, we have more immunity data to go on with infections than we do with vaccinations and herd immunity is more than achievable with vaccines and previous infection.

The importance of micronutrients (and widespread deficiencies) in immunity - for general health and response to covid) - is also being wilfully ignored.

The plain, simple fact is that there are many people who don't NEED to be vaccinated (but if they choose to be so, that's 👍 with me). It's a choice that can't be argued with for both ethical and common sense reasons.

I am going to plonk a link to this video interview with Prof Shane Crotty - virologist and immunologist - here, because he talks about some of the points and questions raised in this thread. Some of them took me by surprise! I think everyone can learn something by listening. I made a thread about it here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4202744-Covid-19-immunity-natural-and-vaccine-induced-and-variants-Prof-Shane-Crotty-interview

@Wellbythebloodyhell

can I hold the gun then?

@Jaxhog you'll find that @OpheliasCrayon has stated many times on different threads she's turned down the vaccine for valid medical reasons , not so she can willingly infect judgemental arseholes like you with whooping cough and such like. Take your head out your arse for a second and realise that for some the choice of having the vaccine or not isn't the same for everyone!

Thank you! I was just coming back two weeks late from posting this to see someone would like to shoot me because I've turned down the vaccine. @jaxhog I have severe allergies and my drs have determined that I would be at risk of a fatal reaction to the covid vaccination, so if you don't mind I won't be taking it and I'd rather not be shot.

Thanking you for not commenting on things you know nothing about. Im also very pro vax - I've paid for extra ones for my children that aren't on the nhs childhood vaccination schedule and, if vaccines and medications didn't keep trying to kill me, I'd have the covid one too. Anyway. As you were.

Did someone say they wanted to shoot those that don’t want the vaccine?

@Bythemillpond

Did someone say they wanted to shoot those that don’t want the vaccine?

See Literally the post above yours just now

I made a comment saying that I'm not having the vaccine (because of very legitimate medical reasons) and I said 'im prepared to be shot at dawn for not getting it "

Then someone said 'can I hold the gun then?' and wanged on about how they got whooping cough because someone didn't get a vaccine or some such.

Anyway I'm pretty sure as mad as MN can get that they didn't actually want to shoot people who aren't getting the vaccine... Although...you never do know...

Sorry I was looking for Wellbythebloodyhell
Original post. Must have missed it

I am also not having the vaccine as I just don’t want to be ill. I always have a bad reaction to vaccines and I can’t afford to be ill. I have already had Covid I think so I am sure I have some sort of immunity