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What happens about the unvaccinated ?

896 replies

vera99 · 08/03/2021 03:06

There is a lot of speculation about how many will buy into the continuing vaccination program. Some has said 20% won't but I'm sure it will be less than that. We don't know any would be refuseniks. But say it's 10% and suppose Covid will become stronger and therefore potentially more lethal and troublesome will that not lead to many more deaths and hospitalisations amongst this cohort and by doing so threaten the capacity of the hospital's once again ? Hopefully not of course does anyone know of any modelling around that outcome. Therapeutics of course will be of importance to lessen any resultant disease and persuading the currently unpersuaded remains of paramount importance. The stick of no vaccine no travel or no entry will be a great persuader no doubt as well.

OP posts:
EllenRipley · 20/03/2021 11:39

@Thegentleman
Yup. Absolutely. It's been a successful exercise in corruption, ineptitude and gaslighting on a grand scale.

Can you imagine if the £billions wasted on failed schemes and dodgy, crony contracts had been spent on the NHS and improving the country's baseline health (and immunity)?

We'd be in a different world. I hope these things are addressed and research investment into therapeutics continues, but I doubt it. The vaccines are an incredible credit to science and scientists and will undoubtedly save lives but they're also cleverly distracting everyone from the bigger, crucial picture. A terrified populace feels protected and empowered but it's a short term fix. The rich get richer and background health inequalities continue.

dividedwefall · 20/03/2021 11:46

@bumbleymummy

Did anyone read the response to the petition against vaccine passports? It was debated on Monday:

hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2021-03-15/debates/8D4B8782-7BA5-475B-A48A-370859B78209/VaccinePassports

It was reassuring to see that so many opposed the idea - for the same kind of reasons expressed here.

Yes, I was pleased to see contributers from all parties oppose. Very few were in favour.

However the government seems determined to press on ahead anyway. Did you see Oliver Dowden's comments to JHB yesterday? That they were trialing them at the football and that they wouldn't be 'permanent, permanent' whatever that means. Sounds like a done deal to me.

reformedcharacters · 20/03/2021 11:52

Thegentleman EllenRipley

Completely agree.

The government have successfully silenced any dissenting voices, meanwhile MSM have fed people a constant drip of fear. Fearful people do not make rational decisions.

dividedwefall · 20/03/2021 11:58

@Thegentleman totally agree with what you said. Classic tactics to get the plebs to concentrate on policing and berating each other whilst the people responsible for it line their pockets (and their homes) with free money.

They have used advanced behavioural psychology techniques to paralyse the country with fear, which gives the government enormous mental power over people. And encouraging people to tattle on each other in order to 'save lives' and 'protect' loved ones has set people against each other in a way even Brexit didn't manage.

dividedwefall · 20/03/2021 12:01

I would be intrigued to know, scientifically, why some people fall hook, line and sinker for it and don't change their view in the face of contradicting evidence and why some people are naturally suspicious from the start or are able to change their view when inconsistencies come to light?

I know people that are still 100% invested in the whole narrative, following the rules, fearing for their lives if they walk past a jogger, wearing masks at the seaside, desperate for the vaccine to protect themselves etc. And these are normal, young non-vulnerable people.

I don't get it.

Thegentleman · 20/03/2021 15:37

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Globaliser · 20/03/2021 20:24

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Thegentleman · 20/03/2021 20:47

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SophieGiroux · 21/03/2021 00:43

It's nice to see there are some voices of reason on here. Just a shame that people are labelled as "stupid" just because they have a differing view and don't feel the need to have a vaccine against something that is mild for the vast majority of the population.

XenoBitch · 21/03/2021 01:23

@SophieGiroux

It's nice to see there are some voices of reason on here. Just a shame that people are labelled as "stupid" just because they have a differing view and don't feel the need to have a vaccine against something that is mild for the vast majority of the population.
Also so nice to see people who are scared of the vaccine for various reasons, or have a needle phobia also be labelled as "stupid".
WanderingFruitWonderer · 21/03/2021 05:52

@XenoBitch I think it's because people are in defensiveness mode. People resort to such insults when they're unsure of their own arguments I find. I agree that it's terrible to describe other human beings as stupid. I don't think they would if they weren't feeling defensive. That's just a theory on my part though.

lightand · 21/03/2021 06:28

@dividedwefall

I would be intrigued to know, scientifically, why some people fall hook, line and sinker for it and don't change their view in the face of contradicting evidence and why some people are naturally suspicious from the start or are able to change their view when inconsistencies come to light?

I know people that are still 100% invested in the whole narrative, following the rules, fearing for their lives if they walk past a jogger, wearing masks at the seaside, desperate for the vaccine to protect themselves etc. And these are normal, young non-vulnerable people.

I don't get it.

Wisdom Or a fool

The Bible is full of wisdom about it all!

I think it comes down to truth.
Some people are intent on finding out truth , following truth and using it.

Others run a mile from anything truthful. Then, sometimes, and I dont want to get too biblical here, they are prevented from finding the truth again, even if they wanted to.

Even if you or others are not into Christianity, try having a read of the book of Proverbs in the Bible. Choc a bloc on this subject. And if I may be cheeky, maybe read a bit of Psalms after that!

Wellbythebloodyhell · 21/03/2021 06:30

its a matter of choice whether anyone would want to associate with people as stupid as this

To be honest I wouldn't want to associate with anyone who thought they had autonomy or say on what medical procedures I choose to have or not have.
I've had the vaccine, I had it for me, no one else, not to save the world and especially not to be allowed to associate with sanctimonious pricks like this! I couldn't give a rats arse about what other people do that's up to them nothing to do with me, if people want to get their knickers in a twist over other people's choices then crack on but personally I don't have the head space to allow it to consume me

lightand · 21/03/2021 06:31

Excellent posts on this thread from many from yesterday.

Globaliser · 21/03/2021 12:04

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reformedcharacters · 21/03/2021 12:21

Yes label somebody as stupid because they spelled something incorrectly even though you have no idea of the reason for. That’s not ignorant at all.

Difference of opinion obviously down to lack of education Hmm

dividedwefall · 21/03/2021 12:45

@Globaliser that simply isn't true. The public are told there is a correlation between low educational attainment and vaccine hesitancy in the UK, but the US acknowledges that it tends to be higher income, higher educational attainment families that refuse vaccination. Silicon Valley has some of the lowest vaccination rates the USA.

This country likes to convince people to behave in a certain way by making them feel that only stupid people wouldn't comply. Clever people get vaccinated, stupid people don't. It's not true, and the fact you swallow the line and do as you are told so that you feel clever says more about your own intellect than anyone else's on this thread.

But thanks for your useful and well-informed input to the discussion.

Thegentleman · 21/03/2021 15:08

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Parker231 · 21/03/2021 16:30

I’ve had the vaccine, was counting the days until I got my appointment. I did my own research and spoke to friends and family. DH is a GP so lots of information available. Within my family and friends group everyone has had or is waiting to have the vaccine. I’m pleased I’ve had it as it’s one of the steps to a more normal life together with ongoing social distancing and mask wearing.

Thegentleman · 21/03/2021 17:38

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Globaliser · 21/03/2021 18:58

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EllenRipley · 21/03/2021 19:47

@Globaliser
Wow. You are incredibly arrogant.

I too know many intelligent, professional people.Actually, I am one, though thankfully not on a lofty pedestal like you.

Some of these people are happy and glad to take the vaccine. Some of them really need the vaccine. And some of them aren't having the vaccine because they're not high risk, they have immune systems, or immunity from previous infection. Absolutely none of them are anti-vaxxers or subscribe to conspiracy theory nonsense. They're just normal folk - though they are as appalled as I am at the disturbing, sanctimonious, and not-quite-as-informed-and-selfless-as-you'd-like-to-think attitude of people like you.

Being vaccinated reduces but does not prevent transmission. As yet, we don't know how long vaccine antibodies last, or which mutations will escape them (because we are still in the Phase 4 real world data collection stage that also needs to consider 'adverse events' and things like auto-immune reactions). You're still a potential spreader, and potentially a much quieter one given you may end up with minimal or no symptoms because of your vaccination. Vulnerable and vaccinated people have as much protection from serious disease as is possible at this time, and should continue to take care of themselves.
Herd immunity is achievable and highly likely because a) vaccine uptake is high and b) 45% of covid infections are asymptomatic, which means a good part of the population is already protected - and as protected as a vaccinated person. (Btw, I know that because I am participating in a Covidence UK study, and the Professor that's heading it explained that in a webinar).

If it helps you to live your special life by dismissing others' choices (however these are informed) as a product of their selfishness and stupidity 🙄, then knock yourself out. I hope, though, that you apply this selfless sense of responsibility to the other areas of your life and lifestyle that inevitably impact your fellow global citizens' health and well-being (probably in ways you rarely consider).

I also hope this was well spelt and sufficiently punctuated for you. Please feel free to dismiss my opinion and my liberties if you see any typos.

Thegentleman · 21/03/2021 20:29

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the request of the OP due to circumstances out of their control.

Thegentleman · 21/03/2021 20:45

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Globaliser · 21/03/2021 20:47

[quote EllenRipley]@Globaliser
Wow. You are incredibly arrogant.

I too know many intelligent, professional people.Actually, I am one, though thankfully not on a lofty pedestal like you.

Some of these people are happy and glad to take the vaccine. Some of them really need the vaccine. And some of them aren't having the vaccine because they're not high risk, they have immune systems, or immunity from previous infection. Absolutely none of them are anti-vaxxers or subscribe to conspiracy theory nonsense. They're just normal folk - though they are as appalled as I am at the disturbing, sanctimonious, and not-quite-as-informed-and-selfless-as-you'd-like-to-think attitude of people like you.

Being vaccinated reduces but does not prevent transmission. As yet, we don't know how long vaccine antibodies last, or which mutations will escape them (because we are still in the Phase 4 real world data collection stage that also needs to consider 'adverse events' and things like auto-immune reactions). You're still a potential spreader, and potentially a much quieter one given you may end up with minimal or no symptoms because of your vaccination. Vulnerable and vaccinated people have as much protection from serious disease as is possible at this time, and should continue to take care of themselves.
Herd immunity is achievable and highly likely because a) vaccine uptake is high and b) 45% of covid infections are asymptomatic, which means a good part of the population is already protected - and as protected as a vaccinated person. (Btw, I know that because I am participating in a Covidence UK study, and the Professor that's heading it explained that in a webinar).

If it helps you to live your special life by dismissing others' choices (however these are informed) as a product of their selfishness and stupidity 🙄, then knock yourself out. I hope, though, that you apply this selfless sense of responsibility to the other areas of your life and lifestyle that inevitably impact your fellow global citizens' health and well-being (probably in ways you rarely consider).

I also hope this was well spelt and sufficiently punctuated for you. Please feel free to dismiss my opinion and my liberties if you see any typos.[/quote]
This is antivax drivel. Watch the sleight of hand: “...some of them aren’t having the vaccine because they’re not high risk, they have immune systems or immunity from previous infection”.

Let’s break that down, shall we?

“not having the vaccine because they’re not high risk” - the vaccine is being given to high risk groups first, but is going to be given to everyone over 18. There is no credible research which suggests that you only need the vaccine if you are high risk. The USA, the EU, and the UK are proposing to vaccinate their entire populations over the age of 18. But they are clearly wrong, and all the doctors working so hard in the hospitals, who have gratefully taken the vaccine, are wrong, because you have read something on Facebook that says so. Hmm.

Next.

“they have immune systems” - unless you are one of the very unfortunate people receiving treatment that has compromised your immune system, we all have an immune system. Without one you would be dead. All those hospital consultants working in the the NHS have immune systems. They still take the vaccine. But your friends know better than them.

“they have immunity from previous infections” - no scientist or doctor that I am aware of is suggesting that people who have previously contracted COVID should not take the vaccine. No country that I am aware of is suggesting this. It is not certain that everyone who has contracted COVID receives immunity, and it is not known how long the immunity that is produced will last.

These are stupid arguments advanced by stupid people. They require a belief in the existence of a massive international conspiracy to fool people into taking a vaccine, or a belief that you know better than Professor Sir John Bell, Regius Chair of Medicine at Oxford University, and Sir Mene Panglalos, at Astra Zeneca, who have spent a year working every hour they have to develop a vaccine to save lives, on a non-profit basis, and every other leading researcher in the UK, EU and USA. I’d say that’s pretty arrogant. Or really dumb.

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