What happens about the unvaccinated ?

[vera99]

There is a lot of speculation about how many will buy into the continuing vaccination program. Some has said 20% won't but I'm sure it will be less than that. We don't know any would be refuseniks. But say it's 10% and suppose Covid will become stronger and therefore potentially more lethal and troublesome will that not lead to many more deaths and hospitalisations amongst this cohort and by doing so threaten the capacity of the hospital's once again ? Hopefully not of course does anyone know of any modelling around that outcome. Therapeutics of course will be of importance to lessen any resultant disease and persuading the currently unpersuaded remains of paramount importance. The stick of no vaccine no travel or no entry will be a great persuader no doubt as well.

Fantastic @EllenRipley . A great and non hysterical post! I am sick to death of the abuse unless you put your arm our for the jab! A sense of perspective and logic is missing in so much at the moment

@Bythemillpond yes of course later in the year there may be no restrictions and I really want to go on holiday so am hoping there aren’t. But if there are it doesn’t matter if there’s no physical border blocking an entry to a country, you have to respect and adhere to each countries restrictions and if that means you can’t enter then you don’t go.

Racoonworld

I gave up trying to keep up with Covid regulations a while back.

I think I am following the rules more by accident than design so trying to take on board other countries rules snd regulations could prove interesting.

@Bythemillpond I agree our rules are forever changing and hard to keep up with. I’m definitely breaking the odd rule here and there. But you’d be risking a big fine in some countries if you don’t read up in them before going, some are a lot stricter than here. I have family in Spain and they have been stopped by police travelling around there, luckily they could prove they lived in the region but if they hadn’t it would have been a fine or court.

@Bythemillpond

Racoonworld

I gave up trying to keep up with Covid regulations a while back.

I think I am following the rules more by accident than design so trying to take on board other countries rules snd regulations could prove interesting.

...and save you a few quid in fines!

op, these are the figures apparently

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9376941/Covid-vaccine-London-boroughs-vaccinate-30-fewer-55s-Isles-Scilly.html

And that would be mainly amongst the elderly too

Whether that averages out to 20% not having it, I dont know. The figure could be even higher??

I meant to say the figure could be even higher once younger, prob more reluctant age groups, are factored in?

And out of that 20% there will be a percentage of people who will have had it so have immunity anyway

When has a vaccine ever caused birth defects!?

@Goldieloxx

When has a vaccine ever caused birth defects!?

Only the chickenpox vaccine, I believe.

This suggests the chickenpox vaccine doesn't:

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11430950/

[quote Kazzyhoward]This suggests the chickenpox vaccine doesn't:

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11430950/[/quote]
That study only had 58 women who were pregnant when they received the vaccine. That's not enough to identify a relatively rare side effect.

I'm just going off this:

www.texaschildrens.org/departments/center-vaccine-awareness-and-research-cvar/vaccines-age/vaccines-pregnant-women/vaccines

Did anyone read the response to the petition against vaccine passports? It was debated on Monday:

hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2021-03-15/debates/8D4B8782-7BA5-475B-A48A-370859B78209/VaccinePassports

It was reassuring to see that so many opposed the idea - for the same kind of reasons expressed here.

@bumbleymummy

Did anyone read the response to the petition against vaccine passports? It was debated on Monday:

hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2021-03-15/debates/8D4B8782-7BA5-475B-A48A-370859B78209/VaccinePassports

It was reassuring to see that so many opposed the idea - for the same kind of reasons expressed here.

Yes I posted this up thread. I watched the debate and It was reassuring but I think unfortunately it’s a done deal. The government is currently reviewing these and evidence can be submitted until 29/03/21.

After news of the P&O this week offering cruises to the fully vaccinated only and citing customer feedback as the reason it’s clear that the government will likely use this as the excuse, and judging by the posts on MN they will be welcomed by many. People will not accept that this will be the death of democracy (or what’s left of it) in this country.

There’s a video complication on Twitter of the amount of times numerous ministers have denied that these passports were even under consideration but here we are.

Sorry, I must have missed your link!

I think they may crop up for a few things - like the cruises - but I don’t think they’ll need to be used for most things within the U.K. There seemed to be a lot of resistance to that. And rightly so!

@Thegentleman
Exactly this! People have lost all perspective and it's becoming quite frightening. Policing other's personal choices seems to be standard practice and it's shameful and hypocritical, and based on ignorance.
They fail to realise that it's an attitude that, if acceptable, could and should be applied to SO many aspects of individual health and society. Which would be unacceptable for all of us.

I really despair 🙁

bumbleymummy

I hope you’re right, I will personally boycott any company that attempts to restrict services to people for simply exercising their freedom of choice. I’m a frequent cruiser and P&O have already had their email from me, I will never use them again even if they do a U turn.

@bumbleymummy

Sorry, I must have missed your link!

I think they may crop up for a few things - like the cruises - but I don’t think they’ll need to be used for most things within the U.K. There seemed to be a lot of resistance to that. And rightly so!

I agree. We, in the UK, can't control what restrictions that other countries impose of people wanting to enter their country, nor foreign companies imposing rules on who can use their services, such as hotels/cruises etc.

It's highly unlikely that there'll be vaccine passports for pubs, restaurants, attractions in the UK, but given how parts of Europe are suffering from a new wave, it's highly likely they'll have restrictions of some kind, and vaccine passports are almost certainly going to part of that either as an alternative or in addition to covid negative tests prior to arrival.

@reformedcharacters

bumbleymummy

I hope you’re right, I will personally boycott any company that attempts to restrict services to people for simply exercising their freedom of choice. I’m a frequent cruiser and P&O have already had their email from me, I will never use them again even if they do a U turn.

It's a business decision. Do they keep their fleet moth balled all year and risk bankruptcy, or do they insist on vaccinations and/or negative tests so that they can at least do some trading. With no restrictions, very few people would risk a cruise. They have to go with whichever decision will allow them to operate and maximise passenger numbers. All the cruise firms are watching what each other are doing. The first cruise ship firm to suffer a covid spread on board will suffer massively and may never recover.

I gues 50% or so of the 20% or so will becone very ill with covid next winter when it kicks off again, as it will, like all respiratory viruses. They may well aslo face a double whammy if flu and covid as presumably they won't take the flu vaccine either and uptake of that will be up again. Where else do they think these viruses will go?

Kazzyhoward

Their argument falls down as their crew will not be required to be vaccinated so passengers saying they ‘wouldn’t feel safe’ are talking utter rubbish. And it’s a short sighted decision as younger cruisers will be around longer.

It’s probably the kick I needed to stop cruising anyway as they are bad for the environment.

I am in the position that I could be going into rented after selling my house in a couple of months and I am watching with interest how different countries react and who will have the vaccine passport and who will not and if they take away other freedoms because I don’t see a future in the uk if they bring in these restrictions.
I don’t have any ties to this country and if Europe and the UK go down the route of disenfranchising a group of people then I really don’t want to be here.
It strikes too much of the reasons my family left central Europe the year before WW2.

All while a lot on mumsnet are more bothered that Kenneth and Barabara at no7 have a BBQ with 8 people in the garden

But it is ok to gather en masse for a vigil/protest etc

If someone thinks their NDN needs a visit from the police to break up a bbq and issue fines then surely dh where there are mass gatherings then those people need the same treatment.