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Vaccine passports

221 replies

PicsInRed · 23/02/2021 11:08

Michael Gove is presently chairing a review into initiating vaccine passports. If these are brought in, those of us who are younger and low risk and there presently ineligible for vaccination will continue to be highly restricted, whilst those we locked down to shield will now be free to socialise freely and travel abroad.

The young, who've taken the economic and social brunt of job loss and/or isolation and/or working the entire pandemic with no break ... will still be without restaurants, theatres, pubs, dating, mates, holidays etc.

Children aren't even licenced for vaccination. Will they be exempt from passporting, or will they be banned from venues and aircraft?

What are your thoughts on passporting before all have access to vaccination? Mine aren't printable.

OP posts:
AcornAutumn · 04/04/2021 13:24

@HolmeH

I’m not against them completely.. I very much think it’s unfair on young people who can’t get a vaccine yet but perhaps it would work with some kinda hybrid system while we finish up vaccinating. You need to do a lateral flow test & upload your results to be allowed into pubs, theatres etc.. and a PCR test to travel abroad & back into the country.. I think that’d encourage vaccine uptake. Our freedom is still there for both camps but one just has to be vaccinated & done. The other has to stick a swap up their nose everyday.. I know which I’d rather!
Oh lordy Did you apply for the £750 a day job? You sound like you might have.
SunnySideAndMarmite · 04/04/2021 20:31

Susan333
so your argument is because 80% are having the vaccine, (no doubt you have already had it shaking in terror of covid) then the only ones that will be affected are the 20% which you state are a tiny minority

Given the fact covid affects only a tiny minority and the vast majority are following legislation wrecking their lives due to a tiny minority of people which is much smaller than the unvaccinated group, your hypocrisy knows no end does it

Hear, hear.
Couldn't agree more.

I'm so sick of the entitlement that comes from those who typically bang on about "protecting the vulnerable" at any cost by don't give a shit about all the other hardship and loss around, no matter how many it affects. There's a really basic sense of fairness that seems to be lacking.

It did actually cross my mind briefly that all this could be part of a plan to make society hate the vulnerable (see also: demonisation of benefit claimants) because that actually seems more likely as a Tory policy than wrecking everything to save

Bluntness100 · 04/04/2021 20:41

so your argument is because 80% are having the vaccine, (no doubt you have already had it shaking in terror of covid) then the only ones that will be affected are the 20% which you state are a tiny minority

I think you need to calm down and read again. 😂 I said it was a tiny minority who couldnt” have the vaccine. Not wouldn’t*. 20 percent is quite a large amount of peoole you know.. and those who cannot are a tiny percentage of this and it’s due to medical reasons.

Oh and your second paragraph, I read twice, and it makes no sense at all, grammatically or other wise, so I can’t respond as I’ve no idea what you’re trying to say.

Dustyboots · 04/04/2021 21:09

*It actually puts me off having the vaccine as it feels like I’m being forced to have a medical treatment rather than deciding it’s the best thing for me, health wise.

I don’t think any medical procedure should be coerced through low level threats we may not be able to function in our society day to day.*

I feel the same. Was on the fence about AZ etc But I’m not going to be forced into it. Will happily forgo pubs and holidays etc if it’s sticking fingers up at this authoritarian government.

eastegg · 04/04/2021 22:55

I've just seen the news tonight about vaccine passports for the FA cup final, and quite aside from the erosion of freedoms/ coercion into having the vaccine issues people raise, I have another angle on this. Which is that I am now being told that, because I had Covid in December, I am eligible for a passport to the FA bloody cup, but it would still be illegal for me to go and visit my parents as that would involve going in their house and staying over. I am absolutely desperate to visit my parents who are having a really shit time, but the nature of my job means breaking the rules would be a big decision.

Absolutely livid that tonight's news is telling me I'm safe to do a high risk thing I don't want to do, but I am still prevented, after 13 months, from doing what I desperately want to do and reunite my parents with their only grandchildren. For the first time in all this I'm really angry now.

Bluntness100 · 04/04/2021 22:59

@eastegg

I've just seen the news tonight about vaccine passports for the FA cup final, and quite aside from the erosion of freedoms/ coercion into having the vaccine issues people raise, I have another angle on this. Which is that I am now being told that, because I had Covid in December, I am eligible for a passport to the FA bloody cup, but it would still be illegal for me to go and visit my parents as that would involve going in their house and staying over. I am absolutely desperate to visit my parents who are having a really shit time, but the nature of my job means breaking the rules would be a big decision.

Absolutely livid that tonight's news is telling me I'm safe to do a high risk thing I don't want to do, but I am still prevented, after 13 months, from doing what I desperately want to do and reunite my parents with their only grandchildren. For the first time in all this I'm really angry now.

Um well hotels are open so you can stay in one and see your parents outside and socially distance,

You can also go to a sporting event if you can prove you have immunity, don’t assume you’ve got it.

I don’t get what there is to be angry about. If you wish to see your parents crack on. Hotels are open. You don’t need to stay in their home

Veryverycalmnow · 04/04/2021 23:02

I find the idea of vaccination passports frightening indeed.

bumbleymummy · 04/04/2021 23:32

@Bluntness100 I think she’s making the point that vaccines either work or they don’t. If they work enough to allow people to mix at sporting events then why don’t they work enough to allow families to meet up?

Dustyboots · 04/04/2021 23:52

@Bluntness100 I think she’s making the point that vaccines either work or they don’t. If they work enough to allow people to mix at sporting events then why don’t they work enough to allow families to meet up?

Yes. This is a very good point. What is the answer, I wonder ...

Nappyvalley15 · 05/04/2021 06:12

Agree it doesn't make sense. And hotels are not open for leisure travellers until 17 May.

ChocOrange1 · 05/04/2021 06:57

Which is that I am now being told that, because I had Covid in December, I am eligible for a passport to the FA bloody cup, but it would still be illegal for me to go and visit my parents as that would involve going in their house and staying over.
Yes I agree with this! If vaccines work, then let us see family. If they don't work, then what's the point of vaccine passports.

ChocOrange1 · 05/04/2021 06:58

Um well hotels are open so you can stay in one and see your parents outside and socially distance
Hotels aren't open

EffOrf · 05/04/2021 07:05

Hmm, women are more likely to want to visit family and men more likely to want to go to football and snooker. This is just a general observation of course.

Bluntness100 · 05/04/2021 07:17

[quote bumbleymummy]@Bluntness100 I think she’s making the point that vaccines either work or they don’t. If they work enough to allow people to mix at sporting events then why don’t they work enough to allow families to meet up?[/quote]
Honestly because it’s impossible to police right now. If you say to the public you can meet if you’re all vaccinated many people will just meet and get angry because they haven’t had the opportunity to be vaccinated yet.

Plus it’s only the over fifties right now and vulnerable vaccinated. In June when more people are vaccinated fhen you will be able to meet in houses.

eastegg · 05/04/2021 07:59

Bluntness hotels aren't open. Where have you got that idea from?

My parents are too immobile and too far away to see outside. If there was a legal solution I would have thought of it by now.

Anyway, you've completely missed my point, which is the huge contradiction here . We've been told time and again that we can't rely on vaccines or antibodies to ease restrictions other than gradually, yet when it's a big money-making sporting event, either of those things, or even just a lateral flow test, is a complete green light.

And the FA Cup final is mid-May, so your point about things being safer in June when more people have been vaccinated highlights the inconsistencies if anything.

wevs · 05/04/2021 08:33

This summer is going to be a repeat of last summer, but worse because of the false security of vaccines and semi-functional LFTs.

We will be in lockdown again next winter.

The UK still refusing to look beyond its own borders for how to control and pandemic and continue to live normal lives, despite many other countries modelling how to do this almost perfectly.

Still the UK has to know better and keeps repeating the same mistakes over and over again.

One of the worst death rates and one of the worst economic hits does not suggest that the UK has any hope of being the country that has found the only way out of a pandemic. Many countries found that a year ago and didn't self-sabotage every single success they achieved.

Bluntness100 · 05/04/2021 08:36

Bluntness hotels aren't open. Where have you got that idea from?

Many Hotels are open, my husband stayed in one for work about two weeks ago and it was busy too.

EffOrf · 05/04/2021 08:43

I think that hotels are open for workers or people going to funerals but not for leisure.

EffOrf · 05/04/2021 08:45

There is a list somewhere of people that can use hotels, it doesn't include visiting your family

MistressoftheDarkSide · 05/04/2021 09:22

@eastegg - I completely understand what you're saying and I've been banging on about it over the last few days because if the trends continue, by the time we're into the next phase, risks of catching the virus will be negligible - yesterdays figures in the Guardian were 2,297 positive tests recorded. If that is accurate, the chances of someone coming into contact with an infectious person in a population of around 55 million is pretty small. Let's say though, for the sake of argument those people have infected, before testing positive, 10 people - that's around 22,000.

For the sake of argument, half of them test positive - okay, another 10,000 or so. The other half are either asymptomatic, or don't get a test with symptoms. A proportion of them may - nay probably will - still isolate. Hospitalisations have dropped dramatically, 3,356 in hospital yesterday. 10 deaths yesterday. It seems that high risk environments are much better now.

Whichever way you cut it, even with the new variants, the measures being put in place seem illogical and heavy handed and discriminatory, when they are primarily designed to prevent hospitalisations and deaths. The vaccine appears to be having the desired effect and Lord knows I'm absolutely in favour of keeping the virus in check by proportionate means. Into all this you have to factor in seasonality, which is cited in this article this morning.

www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/apr/04/how-is-it-possible-that-the-number-of-deaths-is-now-so-low

It appears that this lockdown, despite the apparent proliferation of alleged Hmm "Covidiots", has had a significant impact.

Yesterday, because as an independent retailer I'm keeping an eye on 12th April, I tried to find data online about whether schools re-opening is causing an uptick in cases, and I could find virtually nothing. On MN I've seen a few references to bubbles bursting and children having to self isolate, so it would seem the testing regimes, which don't apply in a blanket fashion, plus contact tracing is obviously having a positive effect.

Also in the Guardian we have:

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/05/twice-weekly-lateral-flow-covid-tests-england-lockdown-boris-johnson

Sounds great, doesn't it? But klaxons are sounding. As they should be, they are voluntary, but they also have (according to someone on Sky News which I have on in the background) a quite high error margin. So a negative LFT test before an event might mean a person with an erroneous test result, and asymptomatic, might still be infectious and with 20,000 crammed into a stadium, with the idea that social distancing can be reduced in these settings, statistically, apparently, quite a few will be infectious, and depending on the vulnerability and susceptibility of the person sitting next to you, which appears to be very individual, and because the vaccine doesn't render you completely immune, nor completely stop transmission, and you will have a mix of vaccinated, and not yet eligible for vaccine but with a LFT negative test that may have a high margin error, these densely populated mass events become a testing ground rather than a genuine way of getting us out of lock down safely.

So, we have an underlying potential population wide "Typhoid Mary" scenario going on here, because if you don't know you've been in proximity with an infected person, who may also be asymptomatic, and you haven't been notified to isolate, we still don't have a clear picture of actual cases.

So the idea of variants occurring being the fault (which I have seen stated here on a few threads) of irresponsible mixers, is another psychological stick to beat people with, when, due to the nature of the virus it's now nigh on impossible to pin down who, and why and how, in the wider population. That's not to minimise the successful efforts to contain localised out breaks seen when the new variants popped up.

This all feeds into the fear and confusion model of controlling this virus which has been in place from the beginning.

Whichever way you look at it, the horse has bolted - so many cock ups with T&T, so many fabulous ideas which have faded into obscurity even after huge amounts of money have been poured into them - what DID happen to Operation Moonshot?

And with all this, still seeing our families is the biggest risk, not mass gatherings apparently.

I've stuck to the rules, wearisome as it has become but my brain is a pretzel with trying to keep up, be hopeful, assess personal risk, avoid fines etc etc etc, and now everything that is proposed going forward seems like an exercise in being lead by the nose. I'm even deeply cynical of the numbers - they look so much better - yay - but ooh, what about all the undetected transmission????

It's all very well saying just step away, but I have to keep up as the rules and potential of criminalisation have to be considered.

The government is actually providing a very fertile ground for conspiracy theories too.

It all continues to be an utter clusterfuck.

Now, I try very hard to follow the science, so if anyone wants to pick apart my post as an epidemiologist, or a virologist or whatever relevant qualification, with clear, scientific data that proves I am in some way mentally ill because I'm thinking about it all wrong, I'm totally up for that. I want to know, not feel or believe, but know what is going on going forward, so I can be a responsible citizen. At the same time I'm going to continue being uneasy about civil liberties incursions, because that is also important.

Sorry for the rant, but every new proposal is making me go WTAF? at the moment, as I can't see the logic in half of it.

eastegg · 05/04/2021 15:08

@Bluntness100

Bluntness hotels aren't open. Where have you got that idea from?

Many Hotels are open, my husband stayed in one for work about two weeks ago and it was busy too.

Ok, so not for leisure then.

Look bluntness, if you're going to latch onto a particular post as you did with mine, next time can you try to engage with the point being made rather than picking out a small bit of it and challenging it with false information.

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