Vaccine passports

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Michael Gove is presently chairing a review into initiating vaccine passports. If these are brought in, those of us who are younger and low risk and there presently ineligible for vaccination will continue to be highly restricted, whilst those we locked down to shield will now be free to socialise freely and travel abroad.

The young, who've taken the economic and social brunt of job loss and/or isolation and/or working the entire pandemic with no break ... will still be without restaurants, theatres, pubs, dating, mates, holidays etc.

Children aren't even licenced for vaccination. Will they be exempt from passporting, or will they be banned from venues and aircraft?

What are your thoughts on passporting before all have access to vaccination? Mine aren't printable.

@Meredithgrey1

No. I have no issue with countries requiring vaccination to travel to them, this is the case for some other illnesses. But I am firmly against it for going about normal day to day life where you live. I am very pro-vaccine, I volunteered for the vaccine trials and will have it when it is offered to me, but I don’t like anything that moves towards what is basically mandatory vaccination.

There’s very few countries that require vaccinations for tourist visas, they just have recommendations. Requirements are almost always for resident visas

"People less vulnerable have given up a lot to protect those more vulnerable. Now it's the turn of those more vulnerable, but vaccinated, to give up something for the less vulnerable but not vaccinated."

This may seem equitable, but this ISN'T how capitalism works. It's based on maximising profits and so if there is a penny to be made, then fairness and good intent goes straight out the window, without a backward glance.

Will never happen.

Trust me, I think this govt are dire, but this would be even too low for them. I don’t think they are that level of fascist, yet.

@Pan2

"People less vulnerable have given up a lot to protect those more vulnerable. Now it's the turn of those more vulnerable, but vaccinated, to give up something for the less vulnerable but not vaccinated."

This may seem equitable, but this ISN'T how capitalism works. It's based on maximising profits and so if there is a penny to be made, then fairness and good intent goes straight out the window, without a backward glance.

Capitalism works by mass obedience.

I don’t think the under 40s would take anymore bullshit frankly. Perhaps it’s the spark we need to wake up.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Do you really want to stall our economic recovery and a means by which our young can build a better future to meet a playground ethic of even-stevens?

There is nothing to stop other countries demanding vaccine proof to enter their countries. Some countries will do this, and people won't visit for holidays as a result. Other countries will take the more business-minded view that turning away paying customers means less money. People without vax passports will be able to visit there. There are already agents and airlines grouping together to work out ways to allow people who can't or won't have the vaccine to travel.

Some of us don't want to have this vaccine for various reasons so the idea of making entry to supermarkets, bars and restaurants domestically dependent upon a vaccine passport would be both very wrong and hopefully illegal. Again if it is down to individual businesses to police and roll it out it won't last long.

It makes me laugh that people who were talking about these passports in April and May onwards last year were ridiculed. The evidence for all of these plans was openly available in mainstream places like the EU website!

I agree OP, not sure how they would be able to do this fairly.

I personally am pro-vaccine and if I could get one I would, however, I'm currently 27 weeks pregnant so can't but I'm also in my 20's and healthy, no health problems so I would be way down on vaccination list. I think if they were to do this they would need to try and have a fairer way of doing it for people like myself who would have the vaccination if they could

@Howshouldibehave

I shall be livid if I am deemed perfectly safe to go and teach classrooms of children, but can’t go out for dinner when other people can!

Exactly. I’m in my 40s so not on any priority list. Will my life just be wake up, take kids to school, teach all day, pick kids up and home?

I think it’s very easy for those who say vaccine passports allow for safe travel, attendance at gigs etc but I think it’s far more complicated than people think.

For example, what if someone has the vaccines this year and therefore is given a ‘passport’ but then doesn’t get their booster shot next year (which I believe is currently considered necessary), is there passport withdrawn after a certain point, do people have to apply for annual renewal...if so it’s going to become incredibly expensive to manage, I assume costs would be transferred to the end user, therefore creating a class divide.

The cynic in me thinks that there might be so much talk of vaccine passports at the moment to persuade those people reluctant to get a vaccine to come forward in this first big vaccine campaign. When it actually comes down to it I think it’s far more likely to be that certain countries will require proof of vaccine to be allowed entry, similar to the yellow fever scheme.

I will be very angry if they introduce this. I'm nearly losing my business to save the NHS, the vulnerable and I have had no help from the gov all this time. I've put my whole life on hold, my child's life on hold also like everyone else. I wanted the vaccination to start with the younger generation so we could go back to our jobs to rebuild the economy. I have no underlying health issue and I've had covid and it was even milder than a cold for me. I will honestly will breakdown if they introduce this that I have sacrificed mine and my child's life, future so that pensioners can go to restaurants and theatres. I sacrificed all of this to save the NHS and protect the vulnerable not so that they can roam freely while the working people are still stuck at home arrest.

The cynic in me thinks that there might be so much talk of vaccine passports at the moment to persuade those people reluctant to get a vaccine to come forward in this first big vaccine campaign. When it actually comes down to it I think it’s far more likely to be that certain countries will require proof of vaccine to be allowed entry, similar to the yellow fever scheme. @MrsWhites

At least two people on this thread have booked their vaccine on that basis. I think it would be a very effective to way to get the fence sitters vaccinated.

If other countries demand it then we have to have them if we wish to travel there......

NZ Australia potentially

I think it absolutely will happen, but not until most of not all adults have had it.

After that I think there will be no getting on a plane or going to the cinema without it

I also have no problem with compliance for overseas travel. I also have no problem with jobs involving vulnerable people e.g. care homes, hospitals, etc.

I think the chances of vaccine passports being done in the short term while the main vaccination is ongoing is slim to zero. There may be informal systems whereby, for example, workplaces encourage those who have been vaccinated to come back to the office vs those who have not.

Vaccination passports, if they happen, are a longer term thing to stop unvaccinated people from potentially spreading it around, especially internationally. And it's absolutely aimed at trying to ensure that take up is higher.

A friend once told me how she nearly punched a woman who, when discussing vaccinations, said to her, "I haven't had my children vaccinated as I think it's too dangerous and we're protected by herd immunity anyway because everyone else has". Vaccination passports are going to be to stop people like this from refusing it and putting the rest of us in danger.

[Incidentally, personally, I think they should open pubs and restaurants a bit early for all the old folk who have now been vaccinated. gets them open and the economy moving and it's only a month. Certainly, most of the vulnerable people I know have been significantly more impacted than I have from a freedom point of view so it seems like a win win to me as a short term solution].

Sounds just like an ID card to me!
Do we really want to live in a country where we have to carry our papers with us to visit a cafe ?
I don't even carry my driving licence as a matter of principal, I definitely will not accept carrying a " vaccine passport "
Ok for travelling abroad or certain workplace roles but please not in everyday life.

[Incidentally, personally, I think they should open pubs and restaurants a bit early for all the old folk who have now been vaccinated. gets them open and the economy moving and it's only a month. Certainly, most of the vulnerable people I know have been significantly more impacted than I have from a freedom point of view so it seems like a win win to me as a short term solution].

@MsMarch

Who serves them?

Thank you @Throwntothewolves. Some of us shielders have been working all the way through and aren't over the hill yet so please don't make this an Us vs Them

@AhGoGo

[Incidentally, personally, I think they should open pubs and restaurants a bit early for all the old folk who have now been vaccinated. gets them open and the economy moving and it's only a month. Certainly, most of the vulnerable people I know have been significantly more impacted than I have from a freedom point of view so it seems like a win win to me as a short term solution].

@MsMarch

Who serves them?

The people who would be otherwise not working, out of a job or put a greater risk of infection from the unvaccinated.

Vaccine passports are inevitable for international travel. They are going to be a reality of life in exactly the same way as airport security checks, so there is simply no point complaining about them.

Businesses such as cruise lines will take the view that they have a duty of care to their employees and will require customers to prove they have been vaccinated in order to book.

@LemonTT

But those people cannot go to the restaurants?

@AhGoGo

[Incidentally, personally, I think they should open pubs and restaurants a bit early for all the old folk who have now been vaccinated. gets them open and the economy moving and it's only a month. Certainly, most of the vulnerable people I know have been significantly more impacted than I have from a freedom point of view so it seems like a win win to me as a short term solution].

@MsMarch

Who serves them?

Excellent question and I have considered this (but only briefly)** :) Obviously, in first prize, would be other vaccinated people. In second prize, would be low risk people who are happy to take the relatively low risk considering that their customers are all vaccinated and, as the hospitality industry is endlessly telling us, the industry has done a lot to reduce the risk of Coronavirus transmission.

[I should note that I also think that anyone who works in any kind of shop that is currently open should be getting the vaccine asap. I think they ARE on the list but haven't paid a lot of attention to the specifics].

** also, to be clear, while I think getting old people back and economically active is good, I'm also very clear that it's not terribly realistic! I'd just love to see it. I'd love to see the will to make it happen. But we won't. And I don't feel that strongly about it that I'll be out there campaigning!

[quote Doomsdayiscoming]@LemonTT

But those people cannot go to the restaurants?[/quote]
They couldn’t go on in either way. The proposition is to open up venues early for vaccinated.

There is no option to open up early for everyone. At least this gets businesses opened and people working. Pick your poison.

@MsMarch

While yes, the steps taken by a lot of hospitality to keep everyone as safe as possible have been massive. I personally would feel uncomfortable asking my staff to come in and serve people and then tell they aren't allowed the same freedoms. My very staff who have been on furlough (which is 80% of minimum wage) for the best part of year.

I do see the merits, and there are a lot of businesses who I'm sure would think differently.

After that I think there will be no getting on a plane or going to the cinema without it

They'd better ensure there's an exemption option in place then or those that can't will have difficult, excluded lives through no fault of their own.