Vaccine passports

[PicsInRed]

Michael Gove is presently chairing a review into initiating vaccine passports. If these are brought in, those of us who are younger and low risk and there presently ineligible for vaccination will continue to be highly restricted, whilst those we locked down to shield will now be free to socialise freely and travel abroad.

The young, who've taken the economic and social brunt of job loss and/or isolation and/or working the entire pandemic with no break ... will still be without restaurants, theatres, pubs, dating, mates, holidays etc.

Children aren't even licenced for vaccination. Will they be exempt from passporting, or will they be banned from venues and aircraft?

What are your thoughts on passporting before all have access to vaccination? Mine aren't printable.

If they only consider introducing such a thing domestically once all adults have been offered a vaccine, and if those who are medically unable to have the vaccine and children are exempt, then clearly it's different to allowing greater freedoms to the people who have already been vaccinated at the expense of the young and those considered not vulnerable.

But even then, I don't know how I feel about it. I'm not anti-vaxx at all, quite the opposite. I take rather a dim view of those who are able to be vaccinated and choose not to, with any type of vaccine, due to the risk they pose particularly to those who are unable to be vaccinated. But I don't know how I feel from a civil liberties point of view about effectively making it impossible for people to live until they've had a vaccine.

If they choose to go down this route, why not go further? Why not insist on childhood immunisations for children to go to school etc? If we want to have discussions about protecting the vulnerable, why have vulnerable schoolchildren not been considered before? It's just more of coronavirus seemingly being the only thing that matters as well and I'm tired of it.

@PicsInRed I don't see how they could get away with doing that to the young without massively fucking up any hopes held of compliance.... everyone is hanging on til the solstice and desperately hoping to get there.... if the young believe they will continue to be subject to restrictions, they won't continue to comply now.

And you can count me in it if that's the case.

Well something has to happen doesn't it .we've just had the weirdest year ever that no one has ever experienced before. Is it such a shock that things might have to be done differently now ? People will just have to get used to change . Or lockdown forever which would be the alternative

@Dontforgetyourbrolly People dont have to provide yellow fever certificates to go into a supermarket.

. He's making all the right noises about discrimination but, frankly, he's lying. I believe he doesn't want to discriminate, but I also don't believe he won't discriminate

YY @PicsInRed David Cameron didnt want to cut tax credits.

I don't have a problem with ID but I do have a problem with vax cert/ID.

Anyway, how are they going to keep up its admin, perhaps by employing another mate of Carrie to run it//? Is it going to be updated every 6 month or however frequently they carry on jabbing for covid?
If not a proper ID type, what if it ends up in a wash?? Lost?

Good luck to Gove, another waste of time and money.

No the date for all adults to have had the vaccine is well before august. I can’t remember how much they’ve brought it forward but I think it’s may/june

If they choose to go down this route, why not go further? Why not insist on childhood immunisations for children to go to school etc? If we want to have discussions about protecting the vulnerable, why have vulnerable schoolchildren not been considered before? It's just more of coronavirus seemingly being the only thing that matters as well and I'm tired of it

INDEED.

I think the vaccine should be by consent. If you have to have the vaccine to be able to shop, go to cinemas, restaurants etc that is coerced consent, therefore not consent.

On a different note it did make me laugh that Michael Gove is being tasked with looking into the moral and ethical issues surrounding "vaccine passports"

I quite often go out without a wallet or my phone and it would be a pain to remember if i needed it in shops and restaurants etc

And i think it would be dreadfully unfair to bring it in before everyone was vaccinated, personally I won’t be going anywhere my children can’t

So it really depends for me on when and what for

I started a thread about this too. I really hope they don't bring them in or if they do it's that or a negative covid test. It's very unfair on those further down the list who can't get offered a vaccination due to their age. Why should they not be able to enjoy the freedoms others who are vaccinated can? I personally would protest against this.

Something needs to be done about accommodating kids. Some of us have relatives overseas. We want to be able to take our kids on a plane.It's not just about holidays.

inews.co.uk/news/business/uk-unemployment-rate-figures-covid-jobless-financial-crisis-under-25s-young-workers-884156?ito=social_ifb_theipaper&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1Z_bJeS7JhzbczIf9NVuAQyxgdIdjRiiu7jJLfX3nind9Z_QqXwh8BtQY#Echobox=1614081241

Vaccine passports won’t be made compulsory to travel internationally, at least not for a couple of years.

That depends, Saga holidays (cruises) have said proof of vaccination and a negative test will be compulsory for their holidays, after asking their members for feedback and a large majority being in favour. Saga obviously cater to an older and therefore more vulnerable age group and cruises are ideal places for infections to spread, but it's unlikely that they will be the only ones to have these requirements...

My gut feeling is that I will want to simply avoid all pubs, restaurants, shopping malls, mass gatherings rather than participate in this farce. I certainly don't need to ever travel to Australia.

Maybe my feelings are empty threats like all the MNers insisting they are going to stop following all the socdist rules tomorrow. But my gut feeling is I have so few ways to protest the philosophy that shrugs at all harms other than covid, I'll stick with my own little economic boycott for a while.

IATA are already developing an app for a vaccine passport.

Other countries seem to manage this relatively easily. In Qatar you have to use an app which states whether you are in quarantine (Amber), covid positive (red), isolating (grey) or none of the above (green).

They've just added the vaccine, once you are have had both doses the app goes blue.

You have to present the app to enter restaurants, shops etc. It needs to be green or blue.

Those who have had both doses of the vaccine no longer need to quarantine on returning to Qatar, or isolate if you come into contact with a positive case.

Already this opens up travel for those vaccinated. It is likely to encourage those who are reluctant.

Any vaccine passport should include the vaccine or a negative test. This would open up big events like concerts and music festivals which otherwise couldn't take place this year.

Not sure I agree that a vaccine or negative test should be required for shops and restaurants, as they are every day occurrences but for big events like holidays and concerts, I think it's a good idea.

Once everyone's been offered the vaccine (hopefully by July/August) then I'd support vaccine passports, but not before. It definitely wouldn't be fair before everyone's been offered the chance to have one.
Once vaccines are available to all, and only the refusers, deniers and conspiracy theorists remain unvaccinated, then I'm 100% in favour of the idea of some kind of vaccine verification for access to certain spaces. I don't think those people have the right to put others at risk...

By the time if those things are enforced, most of people have had vaccine? Just because elderly people are vaccinated, they can't go to the pub if they are not open. As for a foreign holiday, it eally is up to the country you are going.

@CoffeeandCroissant

Vaccine passports won’t be made compulsory to travel internationally, at least not for a couple of years.

That depends, Saga holidays (cruises) have said proof of vaccination and a negative test will be compulsory for their holidays, after asking their members for feedback and a large majority being in favour. Saga obviously cater to an older and therefore more vulnerable age group and cruises are ideal places for infections to spread, but it's unlikely that they will be the only ones to have these requirements...

Cruises aren’t the same. They can of course implement their own rules because you’ll be spending most of the time on the ship. Flying into another country is different. Like a PP said, Qatar gives you the ‘vaccine passport’ after you’ve had two doses. Most countries only consider you to be fully vaccinated after two doses. I don’t see why they would let you in at the end of July, when your second dose isn’t booked until October. British citizens won’t have a get out of jail free card by the summer. It will depend on each country, and internationally the option to present a negative test will still be there. Because not everyone in every country has access to a jab.

British over 60s have money. They can travel and help the economy. Croatian or Ethiopian over 60s not so much. It’s the 20/30 somethings from those countries that are the most likely to travel - and they’re also the lowest on the vaccine priority list.

@Sunshine1922

IATA are already developing an app for a vaccine passport.

Other countries seem to manage this relatively easily. In Qatar you have to use an app which states whether you are in quarantine (Amber), covid positive (red), isolating (grey) or none of the above (green).

They've just added the vaccine, once you are have had both doses the app goes blue.

You have to present the app to enter restaurants, shops etc. It needs to be green or blue.

Those who have had both doses of the vaccine no longer need to quarantine on returning to Qatar, or isolate if you come into contact with a positive case.

Already this opens up travel for those vaccinated. It is likely to encourage those who are reluctant.

Any vaccine passport should include the vaccine or a negative test. This would open up big events like concerts and music festivals which otherwise couldn't take place this year.

Not sure I agree that a vaccine or negative test should be required for shops and restaurants, as they are every day occurrences but for big events like holidays and concerts, I think it's a good idea.

All this for a disease that has killed less than 300 people in Qatar. It’s absolutely ridiculous.

@SendMeYourSpuds I’m feeling like this too!

What about those of us pregnant or breastfeeding who choose not to have it?

What if frequent booster vaccines are required for the variants and there are backlogs? “Nah love, you can’t come in, 3 months out of date innit.”

When do we stop using the?

The thought of this makes me suicidal, I am not joking. I cannot believe people are so in favour of preventing those who do not want to be vaccinated with this rushed, completely experimental never before used mRNA vaccine from living life or having the same freedoms as others. It does not matter that 17m people have been vaccinated - it is still new, it is still in the trial phase we are experiencing the live trial. How many babies have been born to women who have had this vaccine? How can anyone possibly say there are no long term effects? They say there is no evidence that the vaccine effects fertility or anything else - but there is also no evidence at this stage that it doesn't because it is too soon.

I see now this was never about a virus. It's about control. I'm starting to believe the numbers have been inflated, something is not right. I would rather die than live in a world where I cannot participate in society or visit a fucking supermarket without a vaccine passport.

@EffIt

The thought of this makes me suicidal, I am not joking. I cannot believe people are so in favour of preventing those who do not want to be vaccinated with this rushed, completely experimental never before used mRNA vaccine from living life or having the same freedoms as others. It does not matter that 17m people have been vaccinated - it is still new, it is still in the trial phase we are experiencing the live trial. How many babies have been born to women who have had this vaccine? How can anyone possibly say there are no long term effects? They say there is no evidence that the vaccine effects fertility or anything else - but there is also no evidence at this stage that it doesn't because it is too soon.

I see now this was never about a virus. It's about control. I'm starting to believe the numbers have been inflated, something is not right. I would rather die than live in a world where I cannot participate in society or visit a fucking supermarket without a vaccine passport.

So should we all refuse the vaccine as it's clearly unsafe? How long do we wait? How do you think everyone will cope with overrun NHS for the forseeable until you've deemed the vaccine 'safe?'

@EffIt

The thought of this makes me suicidal, I am not joking. I cannot believe people are so in favour of preventing those who do not want to be vaccinated with this rushed, completely experimental never before used mRNA vaccine from living life or having the same freedoms as others. It does not matter that 17m people have been vaccinated - it is still new, it is still in the trial phase we are experiencing the live trial. How many babies have been born to women who have had this vaccine? How can anyone possibly say there are no long term effects? They say there is no evidence that the vaccine effects fertility or anything else - but there is also no evidence at this stage that it doesn't because it is too soon.

I see now this was never about a virus. It's about control. I'm starting to believe the numbers have been inflated, something is not right. I would rather die than live in a world where I cannot participate in society or visit a fucking supermarket without a vaccine passport.

Almost all the talk has said it's proof of vaccine OR a negative test.

Would you be happy to take a covid test?
Of yes, then that would be your way round it for things like holidays, theatres, etc.