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Vaccine rollout in Europe

457 replies

Baileysforchristmas · 19/02/2021 16:52

The vaccine rollout in Europe is turning into a complete disaster.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/19/german-politicians-counter-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-scepticism-with-show-of-support

OP posts:
notrub · 05/03/2021 16:56

[quote Baileysforchristmas]www.politico.eu/article/commissions-breton-its-fine-if-eu-countries-buy-vaccines-from-russia-china/[/quote]
This is just horses**t

The EU do not control individual nation's healthcare. EMA acts as a facilitator, obviating the need for each member state to approve each medicine, which normally means FASTER access to drugs because pharmaceutical companies DON'T need to make 27 separate applications for approval.

What EMA is NOT is a control body. Any nation within the EU COULD have done exactly what the UK has done and approved the Oxford/Pfizer vaccines sooner and placed orders and that's EXACTLY what some are now doing with the Chinese/Russian vaccines.

Seems rather odd for a Brexiteer to be arguing that the EU SHOULD be more controlling over what individual members states can and can't do... but then again, there never was any logic behind ANY of your arguments was there?

3asAbird · 05/03/2021 17:44

www.france24.com/en/health/20210304-italy-blocks-astrazeneca-shipment-to-australia-amid-vaccine-shortage-row

I think Australia trying stay calm and appeal.
Its weird they make such a big decision yet EU and AZ have no comment.
Clearly its to get at AZ ceo as he lives in Australia as its not like thye blocked any other vaccines ie Canada.
Its such a small amount if vaccine that a lot if eu citizen rather not have.

Baileysforchristmas · 05/03/2021 17:56

@3asAbird interesting link, I hope AZ vaccine will have a full uptake in 2 weeks but i can’t see it happening 🤷‍♀️ Unless Merkel and Macron do a big PR push.

OP posts:
Baileysforchristmas · 05/03/2021 18:25

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/05/australia-requests-review-italy-block-astrazeneca-vaccine-export

Jens Spahn, the German health minister, expressed caution over the long-term impact on global vaccine supplies after Italy’s move to reject the onward movement of doses, with the European commission’s backing.

“With a measure like that, in the short term there’s a win, but we have to be careful that it doesn’t cause us problems in the medium term by disrupting the supply chains for vaccines and everything that’s needed in terms of precursors,” Spahn said.

OP posts:
HelloThereMeHearties · 05/03/2021 20:29

1) The EU were slower to place orders, waiting for the outcome of trials before purchasing. The UK placed orders before we knew if the vaccines would work or not which turns out to have been a good decision

2) Location of suppliers - the UK is fortunate to have such a large pharmaceutical industry, and be the source of one of the best vaccines. Few nations are so well placed

I'm sorry @notrub but both of these points are wrong.

  1. The EU, like the UK, ordered multiple vaccines before trials had taken place. Hence the failure of the French vaccines to deliver. The UK paid money to help the development of the vaccines and the production line. The EU also refused to indemnify the pharma companies, which the UK did. Long before any trials.

  2. The main vaccines have major production facilities in the EU. For instance, the AZ vaccine is produced like this:

AstraZeneca has partnered with several contract manufacturers across the EU to scale up the production of its COVID-19 vaccine. The vaccine, or the drug substance, is currently being produced at two facilities in the Netherlands and Belgium. It's the company's Belgian partner, Novasep, which has struggled with low yields.

The vaccine is then filled into vials and packaged in Dessau in eastern Germany by IDT Biologika and by Catalent in Anagni, Italy. Spanish pharmaceutical group Insud Pharma will also undertake vial filling and packaging services for the vaccine in Spain's Castilla-La Mancha region.

www.dw.com/en/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-oxford/a-56427963

HelloThereMeHearties · 05/03/2021 20:30

That is why/how Italy has come to ban the export of the AZ vaccine to Australia. Because it was bottled in Italy.

3asAbird · 08/03/2021 10:16

Sadly this is not going to instill confidence in Europeans wanting the az jab.

www.politico.eu/article/oxford-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-death-austria/amp/

Just feels so sad a vaccine thats not for profit, given and invested in poorer countries, cheaper Jabs to buy as not all members states equal financially thats shown some great results and logistically easy to store administer has had such a tough time and bad press.
My parents both had the az one and been fine.

Europe as usual postive spin just like the Easter bunny in April more brands be approved and stock immediately available.
We have seen from all the current 3 moderna , az and phizer getting significant supply to meet demand is tricky and unpredictable.

www.politico.eu/article/von-der-leyen-says-eus-vaccine-doses-to-double-to-100m-per-month-in-april/

I wish Europe luck really do.
Guess next steps really are ema approving janson and stock being immediately available.
The other main 3 increasing their supply.
EU citizens having confidence in vaccines currently available.
Trying to ensure each member states healthcare systems are geared up to speedy mass vaccination.

Baileysforchristmas · 08/03/2021 10:51

I hope the EU use the stock pile of over 25 million AZ vaccines, the shelf life is only 6 months, I can see a lot of it going to waste.

OP posts:
Parker231 · 08/03/2021 11:15

Bailey - why would the EU waste the supplies. They are rolling out a vaccination programme. My parents in Belgium are expecting theirs soon and my sister, a dentist has had her first vaccine and is now helping at one of the centres.

HilaryThorpe · 08/03/2021 11:25

My DH will have the AZ vaccine on Saturday here in France. His GP will do it as he is over 70 with long-term conditions. Mine (I am also over 70) will be in April. Yes the delay has been a bit frustrating, but definitely speeding up now. We are not in lockdown and the pressure on intensive care beds here is only 24%.
The gloating and misinformation in the UK press has been nauseating.

notimagain · 08/03/2021 13:39

@HilaryThorpe

My DH will have the AZ vaccine on Saturday here in France. His GP will do it as he is over 70 with long-term conditions. Mine (I am also over 70) will be in April. Yes the delay has been a bit frustrating, but definitely speeding up now. We are not in lockdown and the pressure on intensive care beds here is only 24%. The gloating and misinformation in the UK press has been nauseating.
Yes it has often been nauseating , and it seems to be stuck in that rut...I guess it sells papers/generates click bait

There was yet another negative article highlighting the French vaccine sceptics in one of the UK papers yesterday, but interestingly enough I've seen no, zero, nil mention of in the MSM at all of the number of vaccines administered here in France over the weekend.....

CuteOrangeElephant · 08/03/2021 14:38

The anti EU sentiment from the press is horrible. Almost as if they are trying to prove some kind of point around Brexit.

Do people genuinely think vaccines are being wasted? The Netherlands currently has half a million in the freezer... But guess what, those are reserved for people that have already made an (first or second) appointment!

newstart1234 · 08/03/2021 16:52

It’s going pretty well here in Denmark too, 10% vaccine coverage and ‘only’ 16 deaths caused by Covid in the last week. With a population of 6 million that’s fewer than the U.K. had today if scales up proportionally.

newstart1234 · 08/03/2021 17:00

Sorry I think I’ve got my days mixed up there. But I’m very pleased that the rollout is speeding up all over now 🙂

peak2021 · 08/03/2021 18:00

It is sad to read of the slower vaccine rollout in other European countries. None of us I hope want to see any more Covid 19 deaths anywhere, and vaccination is the main route out.

@notrub what your points incidentally confirm is that even if we had remained in the EU, the excellent performance of the rollout in the Uk would have happened. No doubtless we would have gone it alone with orders.

Parker231 · 08/03/2021 18:20

My family in Belgium and France have reported that the vaccine programme is going well. My DSis has had her vaccine (dentist) and is now giving vaccinations. My parents have an appointment for theirs this month as do some of my cousins in France.

Gerla · 08/03/2021 18:26

They have been told in n. Italy that first doses for over 75s will be after Easter. That doesn’t sound much like fully-vaccinated grandparents to me.

I know plenty of elderly people in Italy who have already been vaccinated. I am already booked in for my vaccination and I am under 50!

Sirzy · 08/03/2021 18:34

@Parker231

My family in Belgium and France have reported that the vaccine programme is going well. My DSis has had her vaccine (dentist) and is now giving vaccinations. My parents have an appointment for theirs this month as do some of my cousins in France.
If must vary by area a lot then as my MiL is in her 80s and lives in France with no signs of getting it any time soon. She is on a waiting list for a call
Parker231 · 08/03/2021 18:37

Sounds similar to the U.K. with some younger people in one area having their vaccinations before older people in another.

notimagain · 08/03/2021 20:19

@Sirzy

It must vary by area a lot then as my MiL is in her 80s and lives in France with no signs of getting it any time soon. She is on a waiting list for a call*

I'm hearing of plenty of vulnerable over 65s now getting vaccinated, and this weekend there was a big ( all things relative) vaccination drive with around 500k jabs given in France over Fri/Sat/Sun..I think most effort was concentrated in the badly effected departments in the south east and the north (including Isle de France), but there were centres open, including "pop up centres", right across the country where you could walk in and get jabbed without an appointment if you were ? 65 or over with a comorbidity.

There are a handful of unconfirmed reports of some under 65 getting vaccinated...

From what I'm hearing however those waiting for a vaccination through their Generaliste (GP) are having a lengthy wait...as you say they have to wait for the Doc to ring them......

Hope your MIL gets her jab soon..

FWIW www.francebleu.fr/infos/societe/covid-19-des-centres-de-vaccination-ephemeres-ouvrent-ce-week-end-en-france-1615021847

StepOutOfLine · 08/03/2021 21:08

@Gerla

They have been told in n. Italy that first doses for over 75s will be after Easter. That doesn’t sound much like fully-vaccinated grandparents to me.

I know plenty of elderly people in Italy who have already been vaccinated. I am already booked in for my vaccination and I am under 50!

I can confirm that. I'm in the south, 55 and had mine last week. (Teacher)
miimblemomble · 09/03/2021 07:38

As a Brit in France it’s been interesting to see how the two countries have responded culturally to a mass 💉 campaign. That whole “roll up your sleeves, get the kettle on and get organised together” approach that has served the U.K. so well just does not exist here. Medical care is highly individualised and not mass market. People choose their dr, choose their specialists, choose their lab and X-ray provider, even choose their surgeon etc and it’s generally at a time and place of their choosing. There are virtually no multi-service medical centres here, in the big cities at least. Généralistes mostly work in their own - maybe sharing a part time secretary. No nurses, no clinics, no paramedical services. And no NHS records or administrative support to do all the ringing around etc.

So for a french Dr to suddenly become a mini vax centre is a huge ask, logistically and practically. I’ve even seen tweets from drs saying they had to go and buy a bigger fridge for their office: all drugs and vaccines are held in pharmacies here, you collect it and trot off to the dr to have it administered.

Another thing. There are no mass vaccinations campaigns in schools here. I remember queuing up to get my BCG and my rubella jags at school. Nothing like that here - each individual parent organises to go to the dr, get the prescription, collect the vaccine, back to the dr for every single childhood vaccination. So for french people, the idea of pitching up en masse, to a tent or a sports hall etc is pretty far out. And the idea that the vaccine might be delivered by a volunteer / student / vet!!! Insupportable!!

These things rarely get mentioned in the newspaper articles. But Macron’s ill-judged / mis-translated remarks aside, there are many other reasons why things are going so slowly here.

Purplekitchen · 09/03/2021 11:53

@miimblemomble
Totally agree with what you have said about the French health system not being geared up for this sort of campaign.
I would like to add, however, that in 25 years of living in France I did not see much evidence of general anti vax sentiment. There was none of the fuss about the mmr jab causing autism and the BCG was compulsory if you wanted to enrol your kids in school, at least it was 15-20 years ago when my DC were little.
The only people I know in France today who have had their COVID vaccine are a doctor and a care home worker. MIL 73 is still waiting.

NewYearNewTwatName · 10/03/2021 13:52

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56339188

Apparently EU say UK have banned all vaccine exports and vaccine components Confused

3asAbird · 10/03/2021 14:00

@NewYearNewTwatName

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56339188

Apparently EU say UK have banned all vaccine exports and vaccine components Confused

Yes just saw this but not sure its factually true don't see how it can be. Because a key part of phizzer vaccine is produced in Yorkshire so presumable we sending that to Germany or wherever they manufacture phizzer. I also think we due outstanding phizzer orders and we haven't had moderna yet. Its true we make az in uk but this is to fulfill uk orders 1st then will ship as its mostly publicly funded by our government and we had a very specific contract with AZ uk. I imagine once they done they will export. Also 2 new vaccines novovax American firm due to start producing this autumn /winter and French firm valneva in Scotland will export to Europe and beyond.

America I think Europe may have point.
I'm pretty sure operation warp speed started by trump carried on by Biden keeps any vaccines made in states for America.
They won't even share with Canada and its immediate neighbours they share border with.
This means most of 3rd countries supply right now ie Canada and Australia is reliant on Europe who are now blocking exports.
Uk currently is not a big player in production of vaccines we currently only make az.

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/charles-michel-government-brexit-european-council-president-b923159.html?amp