Vaccine rollout in Europe

[Baileysforchristmas]

The vaccine rollout in Europe is turning into a complete disaster.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/19/german-politicians-counter-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-scepticism-with-show-of-support

@Baileysforchristmas

I know I don’t understand it, 250k is a drop in the ocean to the EU, they have more doses stock piled.

Every fricking thing the EU do at the moment is baffling. Let's throw Northern Ireland to the wolves! Let's lie about the AZ vaccine! Let's ban exports of a tiny amount of vaccines to a country that has legitimately bought them!

Baffling. Inept. Embarrassing.

So how many of the 11 eu countries are backtracking on age restrictions for Oxford AZ.
Switzerland and USA not approved Oxford AZ at all.
No idea what south Africa is doing with their stock they don't want to use.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.cityam.com/why-have-almost-half-eu-countries-restricted-use-of-the-astrazeneca-vaccine/amp/

Yes they have a supply problem but confidence problem I would say is bigger.
I'm confused about Italy as thought they just packaged the vaccines but doing some digging they do have a production plant that opened last year that I don't recall being mentioned at all
We heard about EU commission raids in Belgium.

Some are playing politics for sure I think long term will backfire on Europe if pharmaceutical firms withdraw..
We have 2 new vaccine in autumn early part 2022 being produced in uk .
America is putting their needs 1st not even shipping to Canada yet EU says nothing about vaccines protectionism.

Clearly they have many issue's with UK.
But whats Australia and private business got to do with eu the vaccines are not state owned.
Could Australia sue AZ for breech of contract as I presume they ordered and paid for these vaccines probably before Europe placed their order.
This strange war with big pharma won't solve their immediate issues and will damage the European economy.

Italy receives 1.5million AZ vaccines and only administered 323k?
They blocking 250k to Australia as they don't considering Australia needy enough.
Who made them decision makers of the world?
They part of production process so if az withdraw that affect thier economy.
The new Italian priminster told la republica he wants to suffocate pharmaceutical companies until they can fulfil Europe's order's.
Between him and macron they seem as nationalistic lunatic as trump was.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/eu-blocks-vaccine-australia/2021/03/04/c89b07c6-7cff-11eb-8c5e-32e47b42b51b_story.html%3foutputType=amp

I hope when Britain has excess vaccines we help our commonwealth partners before giving anything to the EU

I'd like to see vaccines being directed towards the poorer South East Asian countries. I don't want to see Chinese vaccine diplomacy in that region---let's get over there and build ties with these countries.

Sadly there are insufficient vaccine doses available. This is to be expected when factories and distribution systems are still being built and equipped.

The shortage has become more apparent now that more countries are wanting to dispense the doses, rather than hanging back.

There is nothing that can be done, this week or next, to provide doses to everybody that needs and wants one.

They simply do not exist yet.

@PigletJohn the EU have millions of AZ vaccines stock piled, so no it’s not just a production issue

www.politico.eu/article/commissions-breton-its-fine-if-eu-countries-buy-vaccines-from-russia-china/

Very relieved we will be producing our own doses and won't be as reliant on those coming from the EU as other countries

www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-unchanged-despite-eu-blocking-astrazeneca-shipment-20210305-p5783e.html?btis

[quote Baileysforchristmas]www.politico.eu/article/commissions-breton-its-fine-if-eu-countries-buy-vaccines-from-russia-china/[/quote]
Not the paper but so much eu spin.

Raises important questions for sure

Why has the ema not authorised the Halix production plant in the Netherlands?
Why if you authorise the vaccine do you not authorise the places its made at same time?
Seems they did produce vaccines last year 2020 other countries as they were not permitted to make for EU.
What did eu expect all they produced to sit in warehouse until eu ready to approve and take delivery if the vaccine?
It appears uk may have invested a lot if money and support in increasing production within Netherlands and possibly other countries too and now anything made there can't leave Europe.

I guess its confirmed that the extra doses az magically produced at speed to placate eu think 9million don't quote me on it came fro India not uk factories.
As says they testing samples from India.

Harassing ceo drug companies daily won't improve immediate supply at all
The AZ ceo is French and had Australian citizenship so this block on 250k vaccines only to Australia is odd punishments .
Maybe they think puts extra pressure on him.

www.smh.com.au/business/companies/australia-is-my-country-astrazeneca-chief-pushed-for-local-vaccine-production-20210305-p577z2.html

It provably does as if I was him I would be looking manufacturing and package more outside Europe.
I would chuckle if Gibraltar seemed attractive.
Them theres international element that you wonder when will America pipe up they been quiet all year about eu and vaccines.
The bottling plant for az in Italy is opened by an American New Jersey firm.

The Johnson and Johnson I believe is being made Switzerland and bottled in Spain but they may have same initial production issues as the other 3 vaccines it may not be immediate oven ready vaccine.

The bit about it can only be made in Europe and only USA and Europe can save the world and produce enough vaccines.

AZ has 2 factories within uk and once they fulfill our orders I guess theres no reason why they can't make for other countries too.
Then in the Autumn Scotland is producing French vaccine valneva.
Teesside producing American vaccine norovax .
We have no idea if eu placed orders for these they were still in talks back in jan.
Last time in checked in terms of continent not eu membership UK was within the continent of Europe.
India can currently produce more vaccines than all eu sites combined.

The fact they so chill with non ema approved Chinese and Russian vaccines in Europe but they won't authorise the Netherlands production plant or they slow to test Indian vaccines or approve any other vaccines is really odd give n the situation they are in.

One thing almost continually being missed in this debate is the fact that there are the national/ sovereign differences between the nations within the EU..Painting this as, as some do as being an "EU problem" because of a single reason e.g. VdL/Macon/Merkel etc is wildly simplistic
or downright wrong...

In the French case Mr Macron's comments are yesterday's chip paper...the main reason are vaccines in store and are slow in getting into arms in France now is not down to scepticism fuelled by anything or anybody. It's down to logistics, the organisational change needed and the nature of the French health system..there are "plenty" of people I know of very keen to get vaccinated...

Problem is, as somebody pointed out upthread or in another thread the French system is a very very good system for providing one on one treatment for all sorts of conditions (and has continued to be so throughout the pandemic), but it's not suited to a "rapid" change of direction towards mass deployment of a vaccine across the whole population.

There would certainly be at the idea for example of non-medical specialists giving vaccinations volunteers or eyebrows raised if non-medical facilities such as night clubs were being used as vaccination centres .....but things are moving, change is coming.

BTW I'm still slightly at the idea that Mr Macron should resign over his reported comments..if we fired every politician who said something inaccurate over covid, vaccination or precautions there would be a few empty offices around the world, and even in the UK.

[quote Baileysforchristmas]@PigletJohn the EU have millions of AZ vaccines stock piled, so no it’s not just a production issue[/quote]
And many hundreds millions of citizens wanting or needing them, so yes, there is inadequate supply.

@HelloThereMeHearties

Oh please. Macron has so many chips on his shoulder - the French vaccines that he insisted the EU buy have been a disaster, the AZ vaccine is part British, the EU vaccine procurement was an embarrassment, and to top it all, the UK have been managing just fine and showing that an efficient rollout is possible.

He wanted to lower demand in his own country, because the EU had messed up procurement.

And if it wasn't political, why was all the fuss being made about AZ not delivering the number of vaccines ordered, when Pfizer was doing the same thing?

As for "test data" - there was no test data to back up what Macron said. None at all. So I really don't think he was going with the science, there...

@HelloThereMeHearties

And if it wasn't political, why was all the fuss being made about AZ not delivering the number of vaccines ordered, when Pfizer was doing the same thing?

Because Pfizer lowered their deliveries to all their customers equally, whereas AZ lowered their deliveries to the EU only. Simple.

Macron has a massive chip on his shoulder agreed, but to everyone - please stop referring to him as some sort of a spokesperson for the EU. For my sake. Because it's really gonna to hurt when I smash my head against my desk in frustration.

There's plenty of EU countries happily dishing out all their AZ doses with no problem. Waiting for data before giving it to the oldest isn't a silly concept, and now that data is available most are.

It may be separate countries but it is the EU who decided to block exports even when they have millions of unused vaccines, I read somewhere 40 million with only 30% being used. I can’t find the link now.

And yes it’s not enough for nearly 500 million people but will these vaccines go to waste, while the EU stop exports to other countries?

Macron has a massive chip on his shoulder agreed, but to everyone - please stop referring to him as some sort of a spokesperson for the EU. For my sake. Because it's really gonna to hurt when I smash my head against my desk in frustration.

Well said..

FWIW French TV is quite willing to point out the shortcomings in French distribution and believe it or not show reports from London/UK pointing out how well the Brits are doing....

It is getting somewhat tiring in this place to hear some drone on in pretty much every post about is "EU this" and "Macron that"....

I get every one of 27 member states are different in terms of levels of infection/ deaths and varying levels of vulnerable population.
Do each state/ county decide on vaccination schedule how fast and who .
Whats life like for the elderly in some of the bigger member states?
Are they shielding as they not had 1st vaccine.
Will country's ethically vaccinate younger and make older population wait or will az only be used younger keyworkers?
I think the fact we have a national helatb service makes roll out vaccine easier in uk.
How are Eastern European countries faring I assume bad if they buying from Russia and China.
In member states doing badly even if az was less successful it would prevent death and hospitalisation seens no brainer they can always have a booster.

Problem is, as somebody pointed out upthread or in another thread the French system is a very very good system for providing one on one treatment for all sorts of conditions (and has continued to be so throughout the pandemic), but it's not suited to a "rapid" change of direction towards mass deployment of a vaccine across the whole population.

There would certainly be  at the idea for example of non-medical specialists giving vaccinations volunteers or eyebrows raised if non-medical facilities such as night clubs were being used as vaccination centres .....but things are moving, change is coming.

I totally agree with this.
Headlines in Ouest France newspaper today are midwives and pharmacists are being allowed to administer vaccines. Here we have dentists, vets and medical students and Tom,Dick and Harry giving them.

Sorry, quote fail, my first 2 paragraphs were quoted from notimagain

@3asAbird

I get every one of 27 member states are different in terms of levels of infection/ deaths and varying levels of vulnerable population. Do each state/ county decide on vaccination schedule how fast and who . Whats life like for the elderly in some of the bigger member states? Are they shielding as they not had 1st vaccine. Will country's ethically vaccinate younger and make older population wait or will az only be used younger keyworkers? I think the fact we have a national helatb service makes roll out vaccine easier in uk. How are Eastern European countries faring I assume bad if they buying from Russia and China. In member states doing badly even if az was less successful it would prevent death and hospitalisation seens no brainer they can always have a booster.

Vaccination schedules etc. are all individual per country. It is ONLY actual procurement of the vaccines that is a cooperative effort. So the answers to the first few of your questions are "depends on the country." Denmark has certainly taken the same "old and vulnerable first" route as the UK.

AZ is now in use for older people in almost all the countries that initially had the limit, because there is now the data available to show that it's effective. This is recent though so we'll see what effect it has.

Buying from China and Russia is an option for any EU country if they so choose - they're not part of the procurement scheme and therefore an option for individual deals. I have no idea if these countries have a problem with acceptance of AZ though, or if it's just supply shortage that's leading to them supplementing from elsewhere.

"BTW I'm still slightly at the idea that Mr Macron should resign over his reported comments..if we fired every politician who said something inaccurate over covid, vaccination or precautions there would be a few empty offices around the world, and even in the UK."

Don't you think there's a difference between "firing" and "resigning "?

@NewLevelsOfTiredness you're going to have to be responsible for your own smashing of your head.

I can’t find a reference to back it up, but I’ve heard two commentators saying that vaccine willingness (if that’s a term) has gone up in France since Macron made his comments, and since it has been so hard to get rdv. There’s a joke doing the rounds along the lines of how do you get an English / German /French man to take a vaccine. Well, the punchline for the french man is you tell him vous n’avez pas le droit d’être vacciner (you don’t have the right to be vaccinated), and he immediately demands to be vaccinated... maybe there’s a method in Macrons madness.

French people would never accept vaccines being delivered en masse by vets or volunteers, never ever would they accept that. And to bring the army in, as they have done in some countries? Insupportable!

I agree with @Purplekitchen and @notimagain, I think things are on the move in France. They are debating obligatory vaccinations for soignants (care / medical staff). And a massive ramp up in vaccination rates. They have had to find a solution that works here, in a system that - while providing excellent, individual care - does not lend itself to mass campaigns. Finger crossed 🤞 !

Every single EU country is in charge of its own healthcare if it chooses.

So for starters it has nothing to do with Brexit.

The only thing the EU itself is doing is procurement - each country had the option to sign up to a joint procurement mechanism or go it alone - or in some cases BOTH! If each and every one of the 27 countries had been trying to purchase from the limited number of suppliers, it would have been anarchy, so cooperation makes sense and on PPE, the EU were streets ahead of the UK.

This time though it's the other way around for two reasons.

1. The EU were slower to place orders, waiting for the outcome of trials before purchasing. The UK placed orders before we knew if the vaccines would work or not which turns out to have been a good decision.

2. Location of suppliers - the UK is fortunate to have such a large pharmaceutical industry, and be the source of one of the best vaccines. Few nations are so well placed.

And as far as the issues about the Oxford vaccine go - the EU took a more cautious approach - again it turned out to be the wrong one, but until recently there was only a tiny amount of data proving the vaccine safe and EFFECTIVE among the oldest age groups, while there was significantly more data with the Pfizer vaccine.