Vaccine rollout in Europe

[Baileysforchristmas]

The vaccine rollout in Europe is turning into a complete disaster.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/19/german-politicians-counter-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-scepticism-with-show-of-support

It was always going to be a mess!
A large bureaucratic conglomerate like the EU, needing approval from diverse members, and with the French dragging their heels and wanting to wait for their own (failed) Sanofi vaccine, could never compare with a single entity like the UK where a dynamic leader was able to fund and book multiple vaccines well in advance.
Many of the eastern members of the EU have broken ranks and bought the Russian Sputnik vaccine, fed up of waiting for the EU to get its act together.
I wasn’t a fan of Brexit, but wow, it’s been a godsend in terms of vaccines.

@Babdoc I think we have done very well with our vaccine rollout, finger crossed it continues, yet people still try to mock it, even though we doing so much better than most other countries.

The UK is doing well, but all member countries could have opted out of the EU wide vaccine program. That aside, I'm pretty happy how my country is doing. We're at almost 3 pct of the population fully vaccinated. If the plan holds, everyone who wants to will be fully vaccinated by end June.

My grandmother will have her 2nd shot in two weeks and my parents in April. That's the light at the end of the tunnel that I'm holding on to.

I have mixed feelings about it. In a way, although much slower, I’m glad it’s as one block because I’m imagining the squabbling between the eu and the uk over the az thing multiplied by 27 if it had been done seperately. Also, Spain has fully inoculated (two doses) more % than Britain has. And as a teacher, I’ll get a vaccination fairly soon because teachers are valued by the govt! All my family are in Britain so I’m really pleased with the speed there, and thrilled my older family has been jabbed, but also here the schools, shops and bars are all open and cases still dropping so I suppose it must feel more urgent to have a faster rollout there (although as I said, I wish it were faster here too).

It’s not a competition!

It’s not a competition!

This.
I feel very sorry for the EU Europeans being jacked around by the politicization of healthcare/vaccines. The silver lining is that AZ will be building a manufacturing site in Germany in partnership with IDT Biologika. That will help! Germany's keen to get their hands on AZ- or ANY vaccine, I reckon! I wouldn't say no to Sputnik V either. It's a good vaccine! 91.6% efficacy against covid. Sign me up. The Lancet's report is very favourable.

If only bureaucrats would put people first. But then... we'd have no bureaucrats.

I am constantly amazed how some people on here selectively concentrate on the facts that fit their own narrative and conveniently ignore anything that doesn't fit.

According to the article, "AstraZeneca has been shown to be about 60% effective in trials, while studies point to about 95% efficacy for the BioNTech and Moderna vaccines."

If that's true, then surely the only disaster is the UK approach of just pushing through with vaccinating as many people as possible no questions asked. If it's not true, why do you cite that article?

But the link says Europeans don’t want AZ because the EU have made such a song and dance about it, only 17% of AZ vaccine that have been delivered have been used. I agree it’s not a competition, I want to visit Europe so I hope they sort it out, if they don’t want to use AZ they’re going to have to approve another vaccine fast or it’s going to take forever.

@Guinan it’s 100% protection from serious illness, hospital admissions and death from 3 weeks after the 1st vaccine so no we shouldn’t be worried.

I’m confused by your point OP. South Africa have returned all their AZ vaccine. The EU is using it on younger people, because it’s been proven to be less effective in older people. I’m glad my grandmother has had the Pfizer and I’d be happy with the AZ as a younger person. What is the disaster? The speed is disappointing but a “complete disaster?”

@grapewine - please post any studies you have that show AZ is less effective in the elderly. My understanding is that it is an absence of data and not any data that shows it less effective in the elderly.

This is completely separate to the discussion re the EU. If you don’t have any studies/data then your comment is tbh dangerous misinformation.

The lancet: www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32661-1/fulltext

So if the EU don’t want AZ and don’t think it’s effective what’s the point of EMA signing it off, what a waste of time and money.

I said earlier it was less effective in the elderly (than Pfizer). I misspoke, I’ve read a bit more I think I understand it to be less effective overall and there be less data on the elderly.

So the elderly being more at risk are being given the more effective vaccine, which makes sense to me?

@Baileysforchristmas I understand it to be a great vaccine for those less vulnerable to dying from COVID as it’s still 70% effective, can be stored in a normal fridge and is much cheaper. In Spain for example it’s being used for the police, teachers, some health workers which means these people are getting vaccinated sooner than first thought as the elderly and CEV are receiving the moderna and Pfizer more.

It's not a song and dance to read the research and act accordingly. It's been proven to be less effective for the elderly, and side effects are more severe. It's not surprising that some countries (including where I am) have decided not to offer it to older people.

Can you please link to evidence for that claim?

Italics fail

Quentin new evidence suggests that the efficacy is higher than that when it is given on the UK schedule. That's why the MHRA made the decision they did.

It probably isn't as good as Pfizer or Moderna but still much better than was the initial target of 50%.

It seems Pfizer and probably Moderna are also not good on SA strain. But its hoped all 3 prevent serious illness / death.

I think its safer for the UK to have 100 people vaccinated with 1 dose than 20 people in EU fully vaccinated.

Absolutely but that's about speed rather than which vaccine is used. The AZ isn't going unused, it's going to younger groups who still need it due to their jobs. It is frustrating that it's not faster and I wish it were, but I'm pleased that the uk is going quickly because hopefully the reopening of schools and shops will be sooner. I'm also pleased the most vulnerable in my family (in England) have had the more effective vaccine, but I'd rather they had any vaccine than none.

My apologies. You're right. Like QuentinInQuarantino I misunderstood. Less data on the elderly and less effective overall. I own that and have asked for my post to be deleted, as I don't have the option to edit.

There are so many different issues in the different countries it’s meaningless to say the whole thing is a fiasco. In Denmark they’ve fully vaccinated the most vulnerable, schools are open for the first 5 year groups, the older ones are going back next week I think. Shops are planned to open soon after. The death rate is a fraction of the U.K.’s, as are hospitalisations and cases. Everyone is due to get vaccinated fully by the end of June here too. In fact, sooner than the U.K.. I hardly call is a disaster so far.

Do you mean Germany or France? - I’d agree with that 😏

I think they’re hoping for the one shot janson one to be approved in March. The gov in Denmark has put out contracts that (scaled to the U.K. population size) would be the equivalent of vaccinating 4 million a day. At the moment the capacity is 1.2 million, they’re just waiting on the shots.

I think the messaging in the EU is the real issue, particularly France and Germany. Countries like Hungary are taking things into their own hands and buying Sputnik. Macron commenting negatively on the AZ vaccine was stupid and things like offering a choice of vaccines in Germany has backfired some what with health professionals in some hospitals refusing the AZ vaccine preferring to wait longer for the pfzier. Apparently Berlin has now said people wil no longer get a choice and if they decline lose their vaccine completely. This is in an article in Der spiegel. All this stuff undermines confidence in the public. I do think these issues will fade away once more vaccines come n stream. I am glad here that all politicians and health experts are singing from the same hymn sheet with regards the vaccines and we don’t have senior figures / health professionals seeking to undermine the programme.