Vaccine rollout in Europe

[Baileysforchristmas]

The vaccine rollout in Europe is turning into a complete disaster.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/19/german-politicians-counter-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-scepticism-with-show-of-support

I don't think they say won't ever be ready with Sanofi just may not be this year.
I was led to believe there were 2 French vaccines Sanofi and pasteur institute which dident work out but all hopes on Sanofi.
So was surprises when heard about valneva which will be made in Scotland was French yet EU had placed no orders.

www.biopharma-reporter.com/Article/2020/12/17/Valneva-s-inactivated-COVID-19-vaccine-candidate-enters-Phase-1-2-clinical-trial

Janson/ Johnson and Johnson will be made on Switzerland so will benefit Switzerland maybe another reason they dident want az be massive success.
Swiss are outside of ema and not part of Europe.
Denmark Italy, Ireland Sweden, France/ Germany are all part of EU and going against their own EMA.
Not sure if Spanish and Belgians dislike AZ too.

Where as smaller Eastern block countries are relying on Chinese and Russian vaccines which I think are starting to get some peer reviews not sure how far in trials of if our regulatory body and EMA will authorise as tricky politically.

I do think there's been some really messy decisions made ie France and Germany backing thier own pharmaceutical companies to boost their economy that came into play.

I imagine the germans will hoping cure vac is available soon.

fortune.com/2021/01/18/bayer-curevac-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccines-europe-ema/

Az was a good bet because it’s an adaptation of the mers vaccine which was shown to be effective. The cynic in me is totally pissed off that there seems to have been a concerted effort from some to smear the reputation of the cheap, effective and easy to transport az vaccine. Note that the us fda still hasn’t approved it . It will cost lives for sure. I just hope the data from the U.K. will give confidence to the world to accept the Az vaccine.

Or it not accepted yet as far as I’m aware.

Italy, Germany and Spain have now more fully vaccinated people (all doses) than the UK. But the narrative that the EU's vaccine deployment programme is a disaster suits some people better right?

You could have doubled the number of those vaccinated and provided them with a huge amount of protection from illness and death in the time you bestowed the marginal gains of fully vaccinated the chosen few.

Fully vaccinated, maybe. But as I said in one area I know they are still doing over 80s and even then at a snail’s pace.

I said it on another thread, the numbers are lower but the procedures in the EU are different. A vaccinated person is not declared as such until they have received both doses. The numbers here (Germany) are very similar to the UK's if you only count those fully vaccinated.

Yes, there is some outrage at the slow pace at which this is progressing, but in March more doses should be delivered and then it can pick up again. The thing is, the UK was in desperate need of a vaccine back in December. Our death rate is half that of the UK's, and the population is 15m higher. Hospitals have not been at breaking point for months and months on end. Outbreaks were quickly controlled, for the most part. The national incidence has fallen to 60 and the numbers are so low now. I still don't understand why the UK's numbers didn't go down quicker, if so many people are vaccinated and have immunity.

Years 1-3 plus nurseries and 'leavers' years (so end of primary/secondary/Abitur) went back yesterday here. Next week hairdressers are opening and in mid-March non-essential shops should open again too. Practical courses at university NEVER went online. Students have been allowed to get the education they're paying for. I have been allowed by law to meet one person who doesn't belong to my household, outdoors or indoors, throughout the pandemic.

The economy has suffered but there has been fantastic support for all industries. I'm in the arts and my colleagues in the UK haven't worked in 11 months. Some have had to sell their houses, move back in with parents, give up their jobs and get new ones so they can buy food. I'm currently giving two performances a week and my income is protected, in comparison.

Germany admires the UK vaccination programme and is definitely something they can learn from it. Bureaucracy has never been more useless than now. But the situation in the EU isn't a disaster. People are getting vaccinated, it might take one or three months longer, but everyone will get there in the end. And in the meantime, I'm relieved the country I live in has avoided so many extra deaths, and that the vast majority of people in my industry still have a job to return to.

Every country is free to vaccinate according to their own priorities.

I for one am very glad my grandparents will soon be fully vaccinated.

Yes, it must be very comforting to have fully vaccinated grandparents, are those whose grandparents who haven't been vaccinated at all as relaxed?

They have been told in n. Italy that first doses for over 75s will be after Easter. That doesn’t sound much like fully-vaccinated grandparents to me.

I think what many MNetters don’t realise is the huge vaccine scepticism outside the U.K. loads of antivavvers and it’s a more “mainstream” view. It was always going to be a harder sell

@LongPauseNoAnswer

Italy, Germany and Spain have now more fully vaccinated people (all doses) than the UK. But the narrative that the EU's vaccine deployment programme is a disaster suits some people better right?

That's literally the difference between the two approaches though?! The WHO have vindicated the UK approach of max out first doses and lengthen time between first and second. The French went all out to smear that approach as an experiment on the British population they wouldn't be copying...

@LongPauseNoAnswer

Italy, Germany and Spain have now more fully vaccinated people (all doses) than the UK. But the narrative that the EU's vaccine deployment programme is a disaster suits some people better right?

The EU narrative of 'fully vaccinated' is based on political needs. Just as the UK narrative is. It would be incredibly naive to acknowledge one and not the other.

My parents in Belgium are due their first vaccination next month with the aim of 70% of the population being vaccinated by the summer. They have less than 22,000 deaths. They started badly with high death rate but seem to have managed it well since then.

I have been less worried for my grandparents throughout the pandemic in general, than if they lived in the UK. Because the local rates have been much, much lower than the equivalent in England (largest city where I am - incidence never went over 230. Where they used to live in London - incidence of 860 at the peak).

10 months of very high rates, more chance of death, and hospitals that can barely cope and don't have enough respirators for all + vaccine at the end of these 10 months if you somehow made it through
OR
10 months of low rates, less chance of death, fully equipped hospitals that saw a higher percentage of patients survive + vaccine in 3-4 months time.

I personally know which option I would choose. So no, it's not a disaster that my grandparents don't have their first dose yet. They will soon. I'm not relaxed but I can think rationally and realise that their chances in the UK would be so much worse, vaccine or not.

Three weeks ago the British variant was at 6% in Germany, a week ago it was at 22%. You are spunking all this time away, how can you think this is the right approach?

@FourTeaFallOut

Three weeks ago the British variant was at 6% in Germany, a week ago it was at 22%. You are spunking all this time away, how can you think this is the right approach?

Because even then, the numbers are falling SO fast. They must be doing something right if the deadly, more transmissible variant is more common but the amount of new cases and deaths falls each day.

They didn't take the decision to re-open schools and start the rules relaxation process lightly. The numbers are low, we can start to reopen the economy without freaking out about vaccines right now.

@EileenGC precisely that. My grandparents both had their jab.

My husband's grandfather in England died of covid last month before he could get his first vaccination. If the UK government hadn't messed up so badly he might still be alive.

Absolutely, the restrictions are doing more heavy lifting there and long may it continue. But the vaccines are right there for the taking, I don't know why you aren't sharing them around more of the vulnerable. I don't get it but I genuinely hope that we all just get a path back to something normal, regardless.

I obviously don’t know how it all works exactly but a lot of it is bureaucracy. It’s not like they’re keeping the vaccines packed in a box instead of distributing them on purpose. The doctors want their patients to get vaccinated, of course, but it’s not their fault there are dozens of procedures to tick off before a box of jabs is delivered to them.

I too hope we all start emerging from this shitty year soon, wherever we are. A poster upthread put it perfectly, it’s not a competition. We should be thankful for everything our different governments got right, and look at the others to see what could be learnt from them.

@Babdoc a dynamic leader

Makes you wonder why they kicked off about az.
When they dident kick off at phizer.

Pfizer reduced their delivery to everyone, treating all their customers equally. AZ reduced the EU delivery massively while increasing its delivery to the UK. The UK media howled about it all being fair as the UK ordered first and AZ were being shady and not giving a clear explanation. Now that both contracts have been released we know that the EU in fact signed their contract with AZ BEFORE the UK signed theirs. That's why they kicked off about AZ.

[quote Baileysforchristmas]@pommedeterre the poorer EU countries are crying out for vaccines, some haven’t received any yet. I don’t know why Germany aren’t sending there unwanted vaccines to other desperate countries within the EU?[/quote]
That's not correct. All EU member states have received vaccines.

www.statista.com/statistics/1196071/covid-19-vaccination-rate-in-europe-by-country/

@FatCatThinCat

Makes you wonder why they kicked off about az. When they dident kick off at phizer.

Pfizer reduced their delivery to everyone, treating all their customers equally. AZ reduced the EU delivery massively while increasing its delivery to the UK. The UK media howled about it all being fair as the UK ordered first and AZ were being shady and not giving a clear explanation. Now that both contracts have been released we know that the EU in fact signed their contract with AZ BEFORE the UK signed theirs. That's why they kicked off about AZ.

I thought it was the licensing deal, rather than the initial order, that was the sticking point. The moment the EU and UK said yes, start delivering...

But there is so much obfuscation I'm happy to be corrected. I'll pop off and have a read...