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Vaccine rollout in Europe

457 replies

Baileysforchristmas · 19/02/2021 16:52

The vaccine rollout in Europe is turning into a complete disaster.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/19/german-politicians-counter-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-scepticism-with-show-of-support

OP posts:
CuriousaboutSamphire · 23/02/2021 14:32

Ooh! Maybe not. This is not what I expected. Possibly the UK contract was more punitive in the event of issues with supply!!

www.politico.eu/article/the-key-differences-between-the-eu-and-uk-astrazeneca-contracts/

CuriousaboutSamphire · 23/02/2021 14:33

Ooh! That may not show as a clicky link

www.politico.eu/article/the-key-differences-between-the-eu-and-uk-astrazeneca-contracts/

Maybe to this will be better!

bungobango · 23/02/2021 14:35

My parents are in Finland and they are vaccinating over 85s at the moment. I will get my vaccine on this Thursday.

Natsku · 23/02/2021 14:59

@bungobango

My parents are in Finland and they are vaccinating over 85s at the moment. I will get my vaccine on this Thursday.
Over 80s rather than over 85s at the moment, and 65-69 CEV start in two days time. Its slower than hoped but there's not so much pressure here as in the UK because the situation isn't as bad (yet. But the British variant is spreading rapidly)
MarshaBradyo · 23/02/2021 15:01

They didn't take the decision to re-open schools and start the rules relaxation process lightly. The numbers are low, we can start to reopen the economy without freaking out about vaccines right now.

What is contributing to this do you think? Is it mostly lack of more contagious variants

EileenGC · 23/02/2021 15:25

@MarshaBradyo

They didn't take the decision to re-open schools and start the rules relaxation process lightly. The numbers are low, we can start to reopen the economy without freaking out about vaccines right now.

What is contributing to this do you think? Is it mostly lack of more contagious variants

A PP pointed out that almost a fourth of our Covid cases are made up of the Kent variant. Angela Merkel said in her last press appearance that they would’ve been happy and ready to end lockdown on the 14th as planned (incidence close to 50, which had always been the aim), but they were taking an extra month to see how the situation with the variants progressed, and aiming for an incidence of 35 by the next review. So it’s not like we don’t have variants around.

The numbers were brought down due to very strict measures, a lockdown that has been in place since the end of October and a healthcare system which isn’t collapsing anymore. Schools are going back but with masks, staggered returns and free testing for everyone. We’re currently vaccinating the police with AZ as Pfizer and Moderna go straight to the over 70s, the next priority group when more AZ arrive will be school staff.

The chance to die from Covid is 50% less than in the UK, so people are more confident about slowly returning to normal.

MarshaBradyo · 23/02/2021 15:40

It has been bad here. Probably worse than where others are posting from.

Thankfully the vaccine roll out is going well though. At this point I’m grateful for that. All the noise over AZ was a shame but I much prefer it’s getting good data back than the reverse to be true.

Motorina · 23/02/2021 15:51

It's worth noting that the EU contract was with Astra Zeneca AB, based in Sweden. The UK contract was with Astra Zeneca UK.

These are different companies, established in different countries, albeit both subsidiaries of the same parent company.

It's hard to see, on the face of it, how any company could have a right to access assets owned by another. Either way.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 23/02/2021 16:14

There'll be a lot more huffing and puffing over the AZ contracts. There's too much political ground to gain by doing so... and as we have seen, the truth is usually the first victim!

potatoesofdefiance · 23/02/2021 16:27

A disaster? My city in Germany is currently expanding our vaccine centre ready for when doses are more readily available next month and expect to get through the full vaccination programme for everyone who wants it by end of July. With schools open and an incidence rate much lower than most of the UK this is hardly a disaster, although of course we all wish it could be even faster! In the mean time they have avoided the potential disaster of richer EU nations being almost done with vaccinating their vulnerable before the poorer EU states could even get started. Despite the derision from much of the UK press I do think it is worth a slower start in Germany, Italy and France to ensure smaller close neighbours are not left behind and I think will pay dividends further down the line.

Yes Europe, especially Germany have always been very particular about thorough scientific evidence and backing, that isn't there yet for AZ for the over 65s nor for the delayed booster regime for bioNtech and like a pp has said you wouldn't get buy in from a significant portion of the population going for those methods without the evidence. It was a large gamble the UK took on those (understandable given the death rates), one which currently looks to be paying off but the long term picture is still far from clear. Don't get me wrong I'm very relieved it is working so far as my family are in the UK and the most vulnerable of them have had their first vaccine which they wouldn't have here yet, however I can't help feeling an ideal way to introduce selection pressure on a virus to encourage vaccine evading strains is to half vaccinate a large percentage of the population, with still high community transmission so that many semi-vaccinated individuals will still get a mild / asymptomatic infection Confused

This is really a long game and we will only know quite a bit later, if there is ever a clear answer, whether thorough and collaborative but slower (EU) was better or worse than dynamic and risky but faster (UK). No denying that it has so far been a great PR win in the UK for Boris et al though, much to the annoyance of Macron (and other EU politicians).

TheKeatingFive · 23/02/2021 16:56

There’s a lot of overstating on this thread.

The AZ fuck up is already old news. And I’m in ROI where we need fast vaccination the most (awash with Kent variant).

The doses of everything will ramp up from next month. In the meantime, we’re getting infrastructure in place. There’s more anger against our useless government than the EU and people are increasingly ignoring our very strict lockdown that’s about to be extended for six weeks. My kids are back in school / crèche from next week though. Thank fuck.

Every country has a different set of circs and are dealing with things in their own way.

TheKeatingFive · 23/02/2021 16:59

Also the AZ shortfall turned out to be less dire than feared. Decisions on who it shoukd be used on are up to individual countries. It’s certainly not being wasted in ROI.

sashagabadon · 23/02/2021 17:27

U.K. and Europe will be awash with vaccines by the summer I reckon and all of this angst will fade away hopefully.

StepOutOfLine · 23/02/2021 20:16

@pommedeterre

Italy are also stating that AZ vaccine doesn't work for all age groups and are using it for under 55s only by the way 3asAbird.
No, they aren't. Initially that was to be the case, but it's been extended to under 65s now. All teachers are being given the AZ as a matter of urgency. There was a hold-up last week in getting enough supplies to the town's but afaik that's now been sorted.
StepOutOfLine · 23/02/2021 20:18

@IrmaFayLear

Spoke to Italy yesterday.

The vaccine issue isn't even front-page news - they seem to have swept it under the carpet, but there is growing anger at the EU and its sloth - on all things.

In relative's area the health centre is open for vaccinations for two hours in the afternoon, and is slowly ploughing through the over 80s. No sports centres/town halls being vaccination centres with teams of volunteers...

In my town the sports' centre was used for 12 hours on Sunday to vaccinate nursery, primary and middle school teachers. Yesterday it was used for the over 80s who still hadn't been vaccinated.
Baileysforchristmas · 23/02/2021 21:43

Can you imagine if they do bring in vaccine passports and the uk citizens can travel round Europe but Europeans can’t because they haven’t been vaccinated

www.politico.eu/article/eu-border-restrictions-coronavirus-brussels-versus-capitals/

foxhole.news/2021/02/23/eu-livid-as-rumours-astrazeneca-will-miss-supply-targets-to-the-bloc-again/?fbclid=IwAR1f1sS25XhzepOc3rBnwSnFOFuqZc_3TF76L3wFzp48BDIsiJxfUQ2ce-0

OP posts:
SummerBody1 · 23/02/2021 21:46

To someone who mentioned it upthread, 'Fully Vaccinated', is a medical term. Not a political term. It means the vacinee has received the 1/2 doses within the time frame that has been recommended by the manufacturer.

I suspect some of the AZ hesitancy is due to the recommended gap of 12 weeks between the first and second doses for full effectiveness. The Pfizer gap is 3-4 weeks.People are keen to feel vaccinated - if both options were available, I can see why people would prefer the quicker one.

@potatoesofdefiance I worry about this too.

EileenGC · 23/02/2021 21:51

[quote Baileysforchristmas]Can you imagine if they do bring in vaccine passports and the uk citizens can travel round Europe but Europeans can’t because they haven’t been vaccinated

www.politico.eu/article/eu-border-restrictions-coronavirus-brussels-versus-capitals/

foxhole.news/2021/02/23/eu-livid-as-rumours-astrazeneca-will-miss-supply-targets-to-the-bloc-again/?fbclid=IwAR1f1sS25XhzepOc3rBnwSnFOFuqZc_3TF76L3wFzp48BDIsiJxfUQ2ce-0[/quote]
Why would we not be allowed to travel this summer if the numbers are even lower than last year? Which country do you think will open the borders to UK citizens whilst not allowing its own population to go on holiday?

After all the problems British tourists were causing in Spain last year by not sticking to the rules, when masks weren't even compulsory outside, how do you think they'll behave this year, when face coverings must be worn outdoors at all times everywhere in the country?

And why oh why would one, as a British citizen who on the magic date of 21st of June will be free of any coronavirus restrictions, want to holiday in 40 degrees heat, in an unvaccinated country where masks must be worn on the beach? Or do you also think the Spanish government will provide UK-only beaches for the mighty vaccinated British population?

You seem to have something against the EU. Honestly, none of us down here on the continent even care about this.

3asAbird · 23/02/2021 21:55

[quote Baileysforchristmas]Can you imagine if they do bring in vaccine passports and the uk citizens can travel round Europe but Europeans can’t because they haven’t been vaccinated

www.politico.eu/article/eu-border-restrictions-coronavirus-brussels-versus-capitals/

foxhole.news/2021/02/23/eu-livid-as-rumours-astrazeneca-will-miss-supply-targets-to-the-bloc-again/?fbclid=IwAR1f1sS25XhzepOc3rBnwSnFOFuqZc_3TF76L3wFzp48BDIsiJxfUQ2ce-0[/quote]
Thanks interesting links

Its so tricky as free movement of people a fundamental part of EU yet can't blame individual members states acting cautiously.

The az thing is interesting as not seen reported elsewhere.
Is the issue still the Belgium factory and the yeilds.
I thought az had offered them extra 8million from India.
Also its the one they least want..
I wonder if phizer fixed its manufacturing issues and that moderna which is approved my ema will up their delivery schedule?
Theres still the elephant in the room issue that EU have passed a law to prohibit vaccines orders sent outside Europe from going.

Hancock claims they won't stop our ordered phizer but don't know how Canada or Australia fared with their initial orders which were supposed come from Europe initially.

turquoisewaters · 24/02/2021 00:16

I am glad here that all politicians and health experts are singing from the same hymn sheet with regards the vaccines and we don’t have senior figures / health professionals seeking to undermine the programme

I agree. This helps massively

BlueSoop · 24/02/2021 00:36

The news reported on a vaccine centre in Berlin that was capable of doing 3800 AZ jabs per day, but only 200 people were turning up. The other appointments remained unfilled, people were turning up then leaving when they found out they’d be getting AZ. Because the EU has done such a good job of their smear campaign on AZ that people refuse to have it now.

MrsFezziwig · 24/02/2021 01:12

I suppose the downside (only as far as the vaccination programme goes, of course) of having fewer cases and a more normal life is that there isn’t the same feeling of urgency to be vaccinated as there is in the UK.

EileenGC · 24/02/2021 06:31

@BlueSoop

The news reported on a vaccine centre in Berlin that was capable of doing 3800 AZ jabs per day, but only 200 people were turning up. The other appointments remained unfilled, people were turning up then leaving when they found out they’d be getting AZ. Because the EU has done such a good job of their smear campaign on AZ that people refuse to have it now.
True. The thing is, there are many, many people who’d still be happy to be offered AZ. The system is so slow and bureaucratic, that it can’t skip priority groups and go to the next person on the line who’d happily take AZ.

I must say it’s also public knowledge which centre offers which vaccine, so it’s a bit rude to turn up and leave without it. You know from the minute you confirm your appointment which one you’re getting. Refuse the appointment and let them invite someone else.

It’s also true that the numbers are so low, that people are happy to wait a few more months until they can get Pfizer. Vaccination hasn’t been presented as the magical solution here. And in Germany you always have the option to choose (and pay) for what you want, especially when it comes to healthcare. Most people want to choose their vaccine, that’s what they’re used to.

I’d personally prefer Pfizer. Would I turn down an AZ vaccine? If I was sure I could get Pfizer tomorrow instead, yes. If turning down AZ meant I’d have to wait 2-3 more months, probably not. I’m healthy and in my 20s though, I don’t urgently need a vaccine. My 72 year old neighbour was telling me yesterday he’d take anything that was offered, even AZ which he isn’t allowed to get. He just wants to not be scared anymore.

MarshaBradyo · 24/02/2021 06:39

It’s also true that the numbers are so low, that people are happy to wait

What is open atm? In terms of businesses and do you have a plan as U.K.has recently set out for removing restrictions

FourTeaFallOut · 24/02/2021 06:54

www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2021-02-23/merkel-warns-of-third-virus-wave-as-germany-weighs-lockdown-exit

There's quite a bit on how things stand and plans to relax relaxations here Marsha

In the article is says, "Health Minister Jens Spahn was forced to drop a plan to offer free tests starting in March amid opposition from state leaders". I had no idea individuals had to pay for PCR tests when they suspect they are ill, is that right? How expensive is it?

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