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The government is about to tell you that schools are safe

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 19/02/2021 14:07

It's being reported that the government are about to embark on a two week PR campaign claiming that schools are safe. We've already seen hints of it in that Warwick report that was widely misreported as showing schools don't fuel community transmission (majorly pissing off the author who advocates a cautious return to schools).

The ONS random sampling survey graphs released today are amazing. They show a huge reduction in the infection rates due to lockdown, but the most incredible reduction is in the infection rate of secondary school children. They've gone from being the most infected subset of the population by far, to the 2nd least (behind 70+). It's clear that despite arguments that secondary kids were catching covid out of school (sleepovers, hanging around in parks etc), this just isn't true and the lack of mitigation measures in secondary schools allowed covid to run riot.

We can't re-open in the same way as in September. That would be madness. I know that people will say that it's fine, vulnerable people are being vaccinated and kids don't get it badly BUT what is not acknowledged is that kids aren't being vaccinated, a lot of their teachers won't be by March 8th, nor their parents and so we still need to keep infection levels down. In addition, rampant covid is incredibly disruptive to education. Teachers off for weeks, kids off isolating, some kids in, some kids out...Sept to Dec was a mess that we should be trying our best to avoid repeating. Vaccinations don't address that issue at all.

Community levels are low, but then they were low in September. Pubs, restaurants and non-essential shops are shut now, but we want to be able to open them. We cannot rely on community levels remaining low to stop covid getting into schools and proliferating.

We need to be careful, because certainly secondary schools aren't safe to re-open in a Big Bang gung-ho way that some are advocating, particularly with a more transmissible variant in circulation. Remember to the week before Christmas when school attendance plummeted in Kent and London? In one LA, secondary attendance was at 17%. And yet the DfE decided to threaten schools that wanted to close early to stop the spread with legal action. The schools were right, and the DfE was wrong. Gavin Williamson can't be trusted to have sensible conversations about safety, he's more interested in bully-boy tactics and setting himself up in opposition to teachers and schools.

What can be done? I think there is room to open schools in some way on March 8th. My personal preference (and I'm no spokesperson for teachers here, other opinions will vary) would be primaries back and exam years back for three weeks, then Easter can be used to examine the impact of the full primary re-opening . I'm not sure that school is such a major factor in transmission at primary as it is at secondary for various reasons, however I'm sure that my primary colleagues have their own ideas about what needs to be done there. If full primary re-opening looks untenable, then I would prefer rotas to only certain year groups in. Some school for all pupils would be better than all school for some pupils as we had last year.

Secondary is a different kettle of fish and should be treated separately. Secondaries were a massive risk for transmission. The word 'bubble' should never be used in reference to secondary schools again, as 'bubble' means a group of people who all have to isolate if one of them catches covid, which went in the bin in secondary around the end of September. There are some easy wins in secondary -
Masks in classrooms would be easy and cheap to implement. Exemptions would apply and clear ones could be provided where necessary for lip reading.
A national programme to improve ventilation.
Testing and isolation of any contacts where positive cases are found to flush out asymptomatic pupils (PCR not LFT).
Moving quickly to remote learning where there are outbreaks instead of trying to keep year groups in and schools open as covid works its way through - the attendance just before Christmas in some schools meant kids would have been better served educationally if they were all at home.

Home LFT testing of kids - I'm not convinced tbh, maybe in addition to above measures, but certainly not instead of them.

So if the government messaging is as it has been: schools are safe and no additional measures to contain the spread in secondary are needed then they are lying and our kids deserve a more consistent and sustainable education than they got from September.

Fingers crossed they are more sensible than we have previously seen.

The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
mumsneedwine · 19/02/2021 15:02

@dipdips my parents were both educated for several years in underground stations. Missed months of school because of bombing. Only the wealthy or in the country didn't have disrupted education during the war. As my mum says they got through it, as nothing else could safety be done,

Delatron · 19/02/2021 15:03

It’s like a record for the number of threads on one topic started by the same poster...

HauntedPencil · 19/02/2021 15:03

@RuleWithAWoodenFoot

I like Laura McInterney's idea - stop the triple lock on pensions for 2 years, funnel that money into young people. They have stayed home and protected old folk, it's payback time.
Why can't we just fund both decently?
aliloandabanana · 19/02/2021 15:03

Why can't primaries open like they did in September? Ours had one case just before half term and has had no more. They currently have almost 50% of children in during this lockdown and everything is working fine with no further cases.

For the poster who asked about using community centres etc, they aren't supposed to open and, as most are run by volunteers, they may not want the responsibility of opening up for a school if they risk anything coming back on them if someone caught Covid there, or similar. They may also not have adequate facilities for the numbers of children - the rules for schools are probably more stringent than for village halls etc.

Bluewavescrashing · 19/02/2021 15:03

Yes, I will be teaching 24 children on Monday in my ever growing key worker bubble. I expect a number of them will have been having play dates and sleepovers this week as, quite naturally, they enjoy telling me about this sort of thing.

herecomesthsun · 19/02/2021 15:03

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ as it quoted a deleted post.

ArabellaScott · 19/02/2021 15:04

Agree, OP. It's depressing how decisions aren't apparently based on evidence or expert advice.

herecomesthsun · 19/02/2021 15:04

@Delatron

It’s like a record for the number of threads on one topic started by the same poster...
She good, you have to admit...
herecomesthsun · 19/02/2021 15:04

She's good, sorry

motherrunner · 19/02/2021 15:04

My own ‘anecdata’ which regular mumsnetters will recognise:

My school hasn’t been fully open since 3rd week in Sept when we had our first case. Twice we closed fully due to sheer numbers of staff and pupils ill.

This half term is the first ‘holiday’ my own children have had since August as they were required to isolate over October and Christmas to the cases in their own school.

My school and theirs followed all the measures the DfE advises but unfortunately we live in an area where numbers have been, and continue to be, high.

How can I protect myself against an airborne virus without a mask?
How can I have ventilation in a room without a window?
How can I share a workspace with my colleague safely when we are placed in a disused cupboard without a window?
How can I maintain 2m away from students when rooms aren’t large enough to provide a 2m distance?
Will I be safe knowing students I teach won’t be vaccinated and the majority of my colleagues and I won’t be as we’re not in groups 1-9 (many of us just missing out as we’re in our 40s)?

These are the questions that run through my mind constantly.

Happymum12345 · 19/02/2021 15:05

This is mumsnet. Most people will only be thinking about the suffering they and their children have had since lockdown. I get that it’s hard with children and working from home. I know they want to be back at school etc. But it should be as safe as possible. What other job is there where the only protection is having the windows open a little and washing your hands? None-absolutely none.
I want life to return to normal & I want my children back at school, but only when it’s safe to do so.

dipdips · 19/02/2021 15:07

@mumsneedwine Good I am glad I am wrong, I know it really but I think I am just jaded from helping out so much and then seeing posts from that generation (in my village so clearly not everywhere!) about how children shouldn't be playing in playground at half term (2 cases in 6000 here.) I think I need to write to SAGA and tell them to stop doing the ads as it is making me cross and actually you are right that generation also gave up plenty as young people.

mumsneedwine · 19/02/2021 15:07

I've decided I'm not going in. So none of my classes will have a teacher if they try and force it. Sorry, but my life comes first, and since no one else seems to care about it enough to try and keep me safe, I'll now make the decision for myself. Section 44 ready to go if Boris says all open.

Dailywalk · 19/02/2021 15:07

@Eyewhisker

Noble - I have two secondary aged kids who are both really struggling. One has special needs, not in an exam year and is simply incapable of focusing on a virtual lesson where the teacher lectures but there is no feedback and no attention if he drifts off.

Every day he is off school is damaging his future prospects.

The difference last term made was amazing. His school stayed open throughout. He had to do some half-days but was never sent home.

His senco has said that they all want to be back in. They can see the damage that failure to provide an education is doing, especially to those who need it most.

Your ‘solution’ would not have him back, even though those who are actually vulnerable to the disease have been vaccinated.

I am not willing for the children of this country to be thrown under the bus any longer. Vaccinate the teachers, fine. Wear masks, fine but it is beyond selfish of adults to deprive children of education and social development.

I agree with this completely.
AltCtrl · 19/02/2021 15:07

As soon as the schools reopen, I will be sending my child back. I do not care what your graphs say, I do not care how unsafe you think it is and I do not care about any other evidence you care to put before us. Schools open = my child in school.

Cantaloupeisland · 19/02/2021 15:08

Ok, putting the safety issue aside for one moment.

Schools going back in full will very likely result in the same situation we had before Christmas: staff and students having to isolate at the drop of a hat, partial and sometimes even full closures due to not enough staff or too many positive cases in a year group, some students spending more time confined to their houses than in school, constant uncertainty and disruption to education.

By asking for mitigation measures in schools, noble and others are trying to ensure that schools are more likely to be able to stay open and thus provide students with a more consistent educational experience. I really don't understand why some people are still not understanding this.

SPRINGTIMEBLUEBELLS · 19/02/2021 15:08

Are they op....

One would assume that by now CEV teachers have been vaccinated, CV being done now and many local authority employees also belong vaccinated.
Numbers of cases falling.

Schools need to reopen for all now.

herecomesthsun · 19/02/2021 15:09

@MrsArchchancellorRidcully

Schools are safe. Why would you need teachers vaccinated? Unless they have been asked to shield, they are at very low risk of illness from covid.

We are expecting our kids (who get ONE shot at childhood) to sacrifice themselves for the elderly. Schools should all be open on Monday in my view. #usforthem

Schools are safe if you are a virus in which case they are bloody good news.

I am not expecting my kids to sacrifice anything, can't answer for yours.

#us for them are selfish nutters

Monkeytennis97 · 19/02/2021 15:09

@NaughtipussMaximus

Oh here we go again. Have you put your klaxon out on the staffroom thread so your little buddies can join in yet?

Schools are safe for students and for the vast majority of staff, especially as the vaccination programme continues. ONS has repeatedly shown teachers aren’t getting sick in higher proportion than workers in other industries.

Oooo 'little buddies.'

Fwends Grin

FGS it is just sensible to have a staggered plan for schools.

Exhausteddog · 19/02/2021 15:10

@MrsHamlet

*why can't these empty buildings be used? Why can't schools be investing in outdoor marquees so that learning can take place on the playground? Particularly as the weather starts to get warmer? Surely it's better to get kids having an education and finding out proactive solutions to make it happen? The excuse always seems to be money. Why has not a single penny been invested in education whereas the magic money tree is coughing up for every other sector?*

Simply that: money. Schools were told they weren't allowed to do this and no money would be forthcoming to do it. Why not? Because the government simply aren't that bothered about education.

my DS school borrowed a marquee from the scouts (i think) put it in the school grounds last summer and had one bubble in there On utilising other buildings. A church hall in our town ran as a preschool for years and had staff toilets, childrens toilets and presumably suitable fire exits etc. The preschool closed a few years ago but AFAIK no significant changes have been made to the building so potentially that could be used for a reception class if classes need to space out.
IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 19/02/2021 15:10

but it is beyond selfish of adults to deprive children of education

They aren’t though, remote education is being provided.

dipdips · 19/02/2021 15:11

What happened at the end of the second wave with Spanish Flu - were there other smaller waves for a while? Is COVID following the same trajectory? Any virologists out there? If COVID really is going to be a 2 wave phenomenon does that mean that the Government are thinking that numbers are now going to drop whatever they do?

noblegiraffe · 19/02/2021 15:11

However, this causal dismissal of a huge rise in primary school aged children is reminiscent of those who insist that secondary pupils with Covid didn't catch it in school.

cant, I’m really glad you are here to disagree with me, I genuinely appreciate discussion about what to do with primary.

I did start a thread about primaries before Xmas www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4110213-Primary-school-kids-now-more-infected-than-uni-students but it’s unclear what the problem was.

That’s why I suggested a three week full re-opening before Easter then a two week closure and (genuine) review period to see what happens.

If primary teachers have any good ideas for mitigation measures that can be implemented with all kids in then that would be great. Marquees in playgrounds is a good one for those with space.

OP posts:
SPRINGTIMEBLUEBELLS · 19/02/2021 15:12

@mumsneedwine

I've decided I'm not going in. So none of my classes will have a teacher if they try and force it. Sorry, but my life comes first, and since no one else seems to care about it enough to try and keep me safe, I'll now make the decision for myself. Section 44 ready to go if Boris says all open.
Resign then. Vaccinate the vulnerable was the call before. It would now appear some just don't want to go back to teaching face to face at all.

Seriously unless high risk or average age over 80 you are not in any dreadful danger. From the screaming before I thought all teachers had already had the virus 20 times already

Redtulipses · 19/02/2021 15:13

Schools going back in full will very likely result in the same situation we had before Christmas:

No, before Christmas nobody was vaccinated.

Now, all the extremely vulnerable members of our society have been vaccinated.

So no, we won't thankfully be in the same situation.

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