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The government is about to tell you that schools are safe

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 19/02/2021 14:07

It's being reported that the government are about to embark on a two week PR campaign claiming that schools are safe. We've already seen hints of it in that Warwick report that was widely misreported as showing schools don't fuel community transmission (majorly pissing off the author who advocates a cautious return to schools).

The ONS random sampling survey graphs released today are amazing. They show a huge reduction in the infection rates due to lockdown, but the most incredible reduction is in the infection rate of secondary school children. They've gone from being the most infected subset of the population by far, to the 2nd least (behind 70+). It's clear that despite arguments that secondary kids were catching covid out of school (sleepovers, hanging around in parks etc), this just isn't true and the lack of mitigation measures in secondary schools allowed covid to run riot.

We can't re-open in the same way as in September. That would be madness. I know that people will say that it's fine, vulnerable people are being vaccinated and kids don't get it badly BUT what is not acknowledged is that kids aren't being vaccinated, a lot of their teachers won't be by March 8th, nor their parents and so we still need to keep infection levels down. In addition, rampant covid is incredibly disruptive to education. Teachers off for weeks, kids off isolating, some kids in, some kids out...Sept to Dec was a mess that we should be trying our best to avoid repeating. Vaccinations don't address that issue at all.

Community levels are low, but then they were low in September. Pubs, restaurants and non-essential shops are shut now, but we want to be able to open them. We cannot rely on community levels remaining low to stop covid getting into schools and proliferating.

We need to be careful, because certainly secondary schools aren't safe to re-open in a Big Bang gung-ho way that some are advocating, particularly with a more transmissible variant in circulation. Remember to the week before Christmas when school attendance plummeted in Kent and London? In one LA, secondary attendance was at 17%. And yet the DfE decided to threaten schools that wanted to close early to stop the spread with legal action. The schools were right, and the DfE was wrong. Gavin Williamson can't be trusted to have sensible conversations about safety, he's more interested in bully-boy tactics and setting himself up in opposition to teachers and schools.

What can be done? I think there is room to open schools in some way on March 8th. My personal preference (and I'm no spokesperson for teachers here, other opinions will vary) would be primaries back and exam years back for three weeks, then Easter can be used to examine the impact of the full primary re-opening . I'm not sure that school is such a major factor in transmission at primary as it is at secondary for various reasons, however I'm sure that my primary colleagues have their own ideas about what needs to be done there. If full primary re-opening looks untenable, then I would prefer rotas to only certain year groups in. Some school for all pupils would be better than all school for some pupils as we had last year.

Secondary is a different kettle of fish and should be treated separately. Secondaries were a massive risk for transmission. The word 'bubble' should never be used in reference to secondary schools again, as 'bubble' means a group of people who all have to isolate if one of them catches covid, which went in the bin in secondary around the end of September. There are some easy wins in secondary -
Masks in classrooms would be easy and cheap to implement. Exemptions would apply and clear ones could be provided where necessary for lip reading.
A national programme to improve ventilation.
Testing and isolation of any contacts where positive cases are found to flush out asymptomatic pupils (PCR not LFT).
Moving quickly to remote learning where there are outbreaks instead of trying to keep year groups in and schools open as covid works its way through - the attendance just before Christmas in some schools meant kids would have been better served educationally if they were all at home.

Home LFT testing of kids - I'm not convinced tbh, maybe in addition to above measures, but certainly not instead of them.

So if the government messaging is as it has been: schools are safe and no additional measures to contain the spread in secondary are needed then they are lying and our kids deserve a more consistent and sustainable education than they got from September.

Fingers crossed they are more sensible than we have previously seen.

The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
OP posts:
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itsgettingwierd · 19/02/2021 23:10

@siestalady

No but imagine if paramedics/police/nhs cleaners were claiming their workplaces should stay shut because theyre "not safe". Society would fairly quickly distingerate if those workers were so reluctant to operate in the way that some teachers on these threads are. Education should be non negotiable in a country like the UK.

And as for the claim its for student safety- really?? Do we really need to look at the stats again re. Covid affecting under 18s?

Schools aren't shut.

They are open to those who genuinely need to physically be there and operating remotely to those who don't.

I don't know about where you are from but that's exactly how all my local nhs services are also operating!

Redlocks28 · 19/02/2021 23:11

You said "we've got the types in calling women love" but I have no idea what the gender is of anyone on this thread?!

No, that’s because it seems that you still don’t understand what was actually written.

carolinesbaby · 19/02/2021 23:12

chocolate partly, yes. Chiller conditions, lots of moisture in the air, workers packed together (agency workers different every day) shoulder to
Shoulder for hours on end, noisy with people and machinery so lots of shouting, removing masks to make themselves heard, lots of workers whose first language is not English making this more likely as well, staff not getting paid if they take a day off to isolate while waiting for test results..... it's an awful situation.
Not eating meat won't solve the problem though.

TheHoneyBadger · 19/02/2021 23:13

You're on a site called Mumsnet. Fairly likely to have a pretty female base. Calling people love is patronising and dickish with misogynistic overtones.

I'd offer to take it outside but I'm in my pjs.

itsgettingwierd · 19/02/2021 23:14

@Reachersloveinterest

chocolate partly, yes. Chiller conditions, lots of moisture in the air, workers packed together (agency workers different every day) shoulder to Shoulder for hours on end, noisy with people and machinery so lots of shouting, removing masks to make themselves heard, lots of workers whose first language is not English making this more likely as well, staff not getting paid if they take a day off to isolate while waiting for test results..... it's an awful situation. Not eating meat won't solve the problem though.
You really need to get Union involved.

Workplaces should be COVID secure. They should at least out mitigation's in and try and curb spread

gigity · 19/02/2021 23:14

I don't believe schools are safe but I'm not sure there is the public will to make them safe. Parents don't exist in a vacuum, by sending their dc to school when school open to all they also increase their risk of it been brought into the home, however the vast majority want their dc back in school.

TheHoneyBadger · 19/02/2021 23:16

Well I'm glad you acknowledge schools are not safe. You'd agree then that it's disingenuous and a bit stazi like for the government to pump out a fortnights schools are safe propaganda then?

chocolateisavegetable · 19/02/2021 23:16

@Reachersloveinterest it honestly does sound awful. Is there anything that we can do? Is there a petition or something?

TheHoneyBadger · 19/02/2021 23:18

What also doesn't help is that a lot of those non british workers are also living in houses of multiple occupation. We had a factory closed down locally and some of the workers live in a house on my street. It's a 2 up 2 down with 3 men, 2 women and a child living in it presumably hot bedding.

HauntedPencil · 19/02/2021 23:18

@Redlocks28

You said "we've got the types in calling women love" but I have no idea what the gender is of anyone on this thread?!

No, that’s because it seems that you still don’t understand what was actually written.

Are you annoyed because someone might not have just been calling women love but men love too?
gigity · 19/02/2021 23:18

Well I have to actually see it first...I still will send my dc to school though if they open.

ChloeDecker · 19/02/2021 23:19

@Reachersloveinterest

chocolate partly, yes. Chiller conditions, lots of moisture in the air, workers packed together (agency workers different every day) shoulder to Shoulder for hours on end, noisy with people and machinery so lots of shouting, removing masks to make themselves heard, lots of workers whose first language is not English making this more likely as well, staff not getting paid if they take a day off to isolate while waiting for test results..... it's an awful situation. Not eating meat won't solve the problem though.
It is awful and Unite as a Union are acting for their members (and raising the issue of immigration exploitation) and I fully support this. Would never claim they think they are ‘special’ l, have been reading and educating myself on the matter and would campaign for them if you were to start threads on the matter.

Now, do you also think school staff and children should experience the same or do you think both should campaign for better?

SpencerGregson · 19/02/2021 23:21

@itsgettingwierd

"None of the schools get checked for covid secure measures ."

That's not correct. My DCs' primary was selected for a random HSE check in the Autumn Term.

TheHoneyBadger · 19/02/2021 23:21

It's interesting though that we teachers are being called marxists whilst we've currently got a very heavy handed state making up laws left, right and centre, not consulting experts, going against experts and investing millions in propaganda campaigns and coming up with jingoistic slogans. Oh and destroying businesses for the public good and because the children must be educated by the state at all costs.

Interesting.

HauntedPencil · 19/02/2021 23:22

We had several in Wales during the summer - and new guidance issued - tbh it's hard to know if that solved anything as the cases were so bad in the winter it was a drop in the ocean.

Another big issue there is not being paid to isolate at the time.

carolinesbaby · 19/02/2021 23:22

[quote chocolateisavegetable]@Reachersloveinterest it honestly does sound awful. Is there anything that we can do? Is there a petition or something?[/quote]
Not really. Many (most) of the workers are agency staff = no union. Companies are trying (temp checking on arrival at work, lots of sanitizer stations in corridors, one way systems) but it doesn't take away the nature of a factory.
DH works across many of these factories every week in a technical role, trying to fix machinary while it is still in use by dozens of staff who are literally stepping over/round/on him. No one gives a stuff about his safety, as long as the lines keep going.

TheHoneyBadger · 19/02/2021 23:23

4 legs good....

(maybe that was what the comment about 4 toes was referring to? Did we ever get that random comment clarified?)

MrsHamlet · 19/02/2021 23:24

Was it goats?

TheHoneyBadger · 19/02/2021 23:25

Do they have 4 toes? Kids are baby goats....

carolinesbaby · 19/02/2021 23:25

chloe i have no issue with anyone campaigning for better working conditions. I have an issue with the idea
That teachers are the only ones at risk/the ones at most risk.

Are schools safe? Probably not, but what in life is?

gigity · 19/02/2021 23:25

It's interesting though that we teachers are being called marxists whilst we've currently got a very heavy handed state making up laws left, right and centre, not consulting experts, going against experts and investing millions in propaganda campaigns and coming up with jingoistic slogans. Oh and destroying businesses for the public good and because the children must be educated by the state at all costs
Why do you think so many parents want their dc back in school?

DenisetheMenace · 19/02/2021 23:25

My goodness, so many posts in one day. Clearly crucial to so many people.

Our youngest is in Y13. Whatever Govt. policy is, he won’t be returning until his CEV dad is fully vaccinated after Easter. College is supportive.

TheHoneyBadger · 19/02/2021 23:26

To conclude then it seems we agree schools are not safe but some people don't care and want them open and their kids in there anyway and don't give a stuff about the people who work in them.

chocolateisavegetable · 19/02/2021 23:26

@TheHoneyBadger

To conclude then it seems we agree schools are not safe but some people don't care and want them open and their kids in there anyway and don't give a stuff about the people who work in them.
Agreed
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