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The government is about to tell you that schools are safe

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 19/02/2021 14:07

It's being reported that the government are about to embark on a two week PR campaign claiming that schools are safe. We've already seen hints of it in that Warwick report that was widely misreported as showing schools don't fuel community transmission (majorly pissing off the author who advocates a cautious return to schools).

The ONS random sampling survey graphs released today are amazing. They show a huge reduction in the infection rates due to lockdown, but the most incredible reduction is in the infection rate of secondary school children. They've gone from being the most infected subset of the population by far, to the 2nd least (behind 70+). It's clear that despite arguments that secondary kids were catching covid out of school (sleepovers, hanging around in parks etc), this just isn't true and the lack of mitigation measures in secondary schools allowed covid to run riot.

We can't re-open in the same way as in September. That would be madness. I know that people will say that it's fine, vulnerable people are being vaccinated and kids don't get it badly BUT what is not acknowledged is that kids aren't being vaccinated, a lot of their teachers won't be by March 8th, nor their parents and so we still need to keep infection levels down. In addition, rampant covid is incredibly disruptive to education. Teachers off for weeks, kids off isolating, some kids in, some kids out...Sept to Dec was a mess that we should be trying our best to avoid repeating. Vaccinations don't address that issue at all.

Community levels are low, but then they were low in September. Pubs, restaurants and non-essential shops are shut now, but we want to be able to open them. We cannot rely on community levels remaining low to stop covid getting into schools and proliferating.

We need to be careful, because certainly secondary schools aren't safe to re-open in a Big Bang gung-ho way that some are advocating, particularly with a more transmissible variant in circulation. Remember to the week before Christmas when school attendance plummeted in Kent and London? In one LA, secondary attendance was at 17%. And yet the DfE decided to threaten schools that wanted to close early to stop the spread with legal action. The schools were right, and the DfE was wrong. Gavin Williamson can't be trusted to have sensible conversations about safety, he's more interested in bully-boy tactics and setting himself up in opposition to teachers and schools.

What can be done? I think there is room to open schools in some way on March 8th. My personal preference (and I'm no spokesperson for teachers here, other opinions will vary) would be primaries back and exam years back for three weeks, then Easter can be used to examine the impact of the full primary re-opening . I'm not sure that school is such a major factor in transmission at primary as it is at secondary for various reasons, however I'm sure that my primary colleagues have their own ideas about what needs to be done there. If full primary re-opening looks untenable, then I would prefer rotas to only certain year groups in. Some school for all pupils would be better than all school for some pupils as we had last year.

Secondary is a different kettle of fish and should be treated separately. Secondaries were a massive risk for transmission. The word 'bubble' should never be used in reference to secondary schools again, as 'bubble' means a group of people who all have to isolate if one of them catches covid, which went in the bin in secondary around the end of September. There are some easy wins in secondary -
Masks in classrooms would be easy and cheap to implement. Exemptions would apply and clear ones could be provided where necessary for lip reading.
A national programme to improve ventilation.
Testing and isolation of any contacts where positive cases are found to flush out asymptomatic pupils (PCR not LFT).
Moving quickly to remote learning where there are outbreaks instead of trying to keep year groups in and schools open as covid works its way through - the attendance just before Christmas in some schools meant kids would have been better served educationally if they were all at home.

Home LFT testing of kids - I'm not convinced tbh, maybe in addition to above measures, but certainly not instead of them.

So if the government messaging is as it has been: schools are safe and no additional measures to contain the spread in secondary are needed then they are lying and our kids deserve a more consistent and sustainable education than they got from September.

Fingers crossed they are more sensible than we have previously seen.

The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
OP posts:
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8
Abraxan · 19/02/2021 22:58

People are so quick to talk about rotas for pupils but not actually about the practicalities.

Wouldn't rota systems be easier for the majority of parents than the current lockdown situation? The working parents I've spoken to,have all said they'd prefer a 2 day in 3 day out system than 5 days out.

I know there are issues re kW children but we could work round that by looking at how countries not offering any Kw provision manage - we could crack down in eligibility to start with and vulnerable children wouldn't necessarily need to be in full time either (many currently aren't.)

carolinesbaby · 19/02/2021 22:59

And yet you all expect to eat every day, and you'd be quick to complain if all the food factory workers walked out and refused to go back.

gigity · 19/02/2021 22:59

I thought schools were not impacted by lockdown? since everyone was classed as key workers now, there were loads of threads about this in Jan. 90% attendance apparently 🤔

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 19/02/2021 22:59

We closed the schools to not overload NHS not to have every person vaccinated.

But leaving at least 4 of the most vulnerable groups unvaccinated and allowing mass mixing all at once in schools does seem a slightly bonkers plan. Look at the figures from mid October, we could be back there by May.

siestalady · 19/02/2021 23:01

No but imagine if paramedics/police/nhs cleaners were claiming their workplaces should stay shut because theyre "not safe". Society would fairly quickly distingerate if those workers were so reluctant to operate in the way that some teachers on these threads are. Education should be non negotiable in a country like the UK.

And as for the claim its for student safety- really?? Do we really need to look at the stats again re. Covid affecting under 18s?

Abraxan · 19/02/2021 23:01

Kingat - I'm responding to posters constantly saying vulnerable staff are vaccinated. I'm not saying whether that means we should or shouldn't open, or to who and it what form. The reality is that many vulnerable staff are not yet vaccinated.

ChloeDecker · 19/02/2021 23:01

@Reachersloveinterest

And yet you all expect to eat every day, and you'd be quick to complain if all the food factory workers walked out and refused to go back.
But factory food workers have threatened (and in some cases actually done that-check the Unison and Unite sites) and we haven’t complained. Confused
itsgettingwierd · 19/02/2021 23:01

Teachers have their kids in school. They are key workers.

That’s not the same as working and teaching!

Many don't. Mines not been in. I'm school staff not teacher and I've been in since last April.

He was in sept to December. He was offered a place due to ehcp. He's CV.

Not a cats chance in hell was I sending him into a Petri dish in January.

He learns online and then I help him with the things he needs help with when I get home.

gigity · 19/02/2021 23:01

Most teachers don't have their kids in school because they know the risks and the pressure.

Is this statistical or anecdotal?

EnemyOfEducationNo1 · 19/02/2021 23:01

@Reachersloveinterest

Have any of you teachers ever been in a food factory? Go and spend a couple of hours in your local meat processing plant and then come back and read what you've been banging on about for months.

You're not special.

Yep have worked on a production line as a summer job when I was a student. Employees have hugely more cubic air space per person than in a crammed classroom with low ceilings and windows that barely crack open.
siestalady · 19/02/2021 23:03

@TheHoneyBadger

Oh we've got the calling women, 'love', types in. Lovely.
Since when can you tell a posters gender?
Abraxan · 19/02/2021 23:03

Reachersloveinterest - it doesn't have to be a race to the bottom. I fully support those workers to stand up for themselves and fight for safer working conditions. At the very least they should be petitioning for the right to have all staff wearing masks, Perspex screens between work stations and social distancing as much as possible, plus full ventilation with all windows and doors open - and safe versions of air conditioning if available.

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 19/02/2021 23:04

Society would fairly quickly distingerate if those workers were so reluctant to operate in the way that some teachers on these threads are

No one has refused to work.

MrsHamlet · 19/02/2021 23:05

I can't. I didn't say I could.

BettysButtons · 19/02/2021 23:05

Yep have worked on a production line as a summer job when I was a student.
Employees have hugely more cubic air space per person than in a crammed classroom with low ceilings and windows that barely crack open.

As do the majority of workers. There are very few jobs where people are working with literally hundreds of people shoulder to shoulder each day.

TaxTheRatFarms · 19/02/2021 23:05

Do we really need to look at the stats again re. Covid affecting under 18s?

Do you want to read my post about how covid is affecting my 11 year old, 11 months on? Probably not, hey. You’ll just say long covid doesn’t exist. Smile

EnemyOfEducationNo1 · 19/02/2021 23:05

My kids are not in school despite being a keyworker.
Which I'm hugely grateful for as at least one of them would have had a popped bubble with multiple infections.
I'm also carer to my DM with COPD, and terminally ill FIL.
Yes it's shit. Yes I wish I was back in the classroom rather than teaching via zoom and teams. But it is still better than black death times when entire villages were walked in.
It is temporary. We will come out stronger. Those who are vulnerable are already in schools.

TheHoneyBadger · 19/02/2021 23:05

Want to read that again and see that I didn't assume a gender I said 'types'. I referred to the gender of the people being called, 'love'. Do you just want a fight or something? I'm on a computer - I can only calmly use my words so not sure what baiting aggressively is meant to achieve?

itsgettingwierd · 19/02/2021 23:06

@Reachersloveinterest

Have any of you teachers ever been in a food factory? Go and spend a couple of hours in your local meat processing plant and then come back and read what you've been banging on about for months.

You're not special.

No but my uncle does.

They've just had an outbreak and now the company is being investigated for COVID measures.

If it turns out they've been too lax then they will be facing trouble.

None of the schools get checked for covid secure measures .

BettysButtons · 19/02/2021 23:06

Chloe
Point well made there!!!

chocolateisavegetable · 19/02/2021 23:08

@Reachersloveinterest

And yet you all expect to eat every day, and you'd be quick to complain if all the food factory workers walked out and refused to go back.
@Reachersloveinterest is it mainly the meat processing factories due to the necessary cold conditions? If so, I would genuinely be happy to give up meat if it would help with a campaign to get safer conditions for the workers.
siestalady · 19/02/2021 23:09

@TheHoneyBadger

Want to read that again and see that I didn't assume a gender I said 'types'. I referred to the gender of the people being called, 'love'. Do you just want a fight or something? I'm on a computer - I can only calmly use my words so not sure what baiting aggressively is meant to achieve?
You said "we've got the types in calling women love" but I have no idea what the gender is of anyone on this thread?!
VashtaNerada · 19/02/2021 23:10

Odd that some people think teachers are asking for schools to close. Schools have never closed, many of us are still in them teaching (albeit with fewer children). That’s really not the issue here, we haven’t gone on strike. The issue is the number of children and the safety procedures in place.

gigity · 19/02/2021 23:10

No but imagine if paramedics/police/nhs cleaners were claiming their workplaces should stay shut because theyre "not safe".

We don’t have to imagine.

I only clicked on four links but they were about pay not safety? eg the bus drivers

"Issues include pay, access to toilet and rest facilities, and concerns about driver fatigue."