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The government is about to tell you that schools are safe

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 19/02/2021 14:07

It's being reported that the government are about to embark on a two week PR campaign claiming that schools are safe. We've already seen hints of it in that Warwick report that was widely misreported as showing schools don't fuel community transmission (majorly pissing off the author who advocates a cautious return to schools).

The ONS random sampling survey graphs released today are amazing. They show a huge reduction in the infection rates due to lockdown, but the most incredible reduction is in the infection rate of secondary school children. They've gone from being the most infected subset of the population by far, to the 2nd least (behind 70+). It's clear that despite arguments that secondary kids were catching covid out of school (sleepovers, hanging around in parks etc), this just isn't true and the lack of mitigation measures in secondary schools allowed covid to run riot.

We can't re-open in the same way as in September. That would be madness. I know that people will say that it's fine, vulnerable people are being vaccinated and kids don't get it badly BUT what is not acknowledged is that kids aren't being vaccinated, a lot of their teachers won't be by March 8th, nor their parents and so we still need to keep infection levels down. In addition, rampant covid is incredibly disruptive to education. Teachers off for weeks, kids off isolating, some kids in, some kids out...Sept to Dec was a mess that we should be trying our best to avoid repeating. Vaccinations don't address that issue at all.

Community levels are low, but then they were low in September. Pubs, restaurants and non-essential shops are shut now, but we want to be able to open them. We cannot rely on community levels remaining low to stop covid getting into schools and proliferating.

We need to be careful, because certainly secondary schools aren't safe to re-open in a Big Bang gung-ho way that some are advocating, particularly with a more transmissible variant in circulation. Remember to the week before Christmas when school attendance plummeted in Kent and London? In one LA, secondary attendance was at 17%. And yet the DfE decided to threaten schools that wanted to close early to stop the spread with legal action. The schools were right, and the DfE was wrong. Gavin Williamson can't be trusted to have sensible conversations about safety, he's more interested in bully-boy tactics and setting himself up in opposition to teachers and schools.

What can be done? I think there is room to open schools in some way on March 8th. My personal preference (and I'm no spokesperson for teachers here, other opinions will vary) would be primaries back and exam years back for three weeks, then Easter can be used to examine the impact of the full primary re-opening . I'm not sure that school is such a major factor in transmission at primary as it is at secondary for various reasons, however I'm sure that my primary colleagues have their own ideas about what needs to be done there. If full primary re-opening looks untenable, then I would prefer rotas to only certain year groups in. Some school for all pupils would be better than all school for some pupils as we had last year.

Secondary is a different kettle of fish and should be treated separately. Secondaries were a massive risk for transmission. The word 'bubble' should never be used in reference to secondary schools again, as 'bubble' means a group of people who all have to isolate if one of them catches covid, which went in the bin in secondary around the end of September. There are some easy wins in secondary -
Masks in classrooms would be easy and cheap to implement. Exemptions would apply and clear ones could be provided where necessary for lip reading.
A national programme to improve ventilation.
Testing and isolation of any contacts where positive cases are found to flush out asymptomatic pupils (PCR not LFT).
Moving quickly to remote learning where there are outbreaks instead of trying to keep year groups in and schools open as covid works its way through - the attendance just before Christmas in some schools meant kids would have been better served educationally if they were all at home.

Home LFT testing of kids - I'm not convinced tbh, maybe in addition to above measures, but certainly not instead of them.

So if the government messaging is as it has been: schools are safe and no additional measures to contain the spread in secondary are needed then they are lying and our kids deserve a more consistent and sustainable education than they got from September.

Fingers crossed they are more sensible than we have previously seen.

The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
OP posts:
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Newnamefor2021 · 19/02/2021 14:53

Ours go back Monday. At least our infants.

I can see why they need to go back and certainly balancing everything will be easier for some but for me this majorly complicates everything as I have 3 older so won't be on, 1 in, two of the others with ALNs and will massively struggle with yet another disruption to our routine after we just about settled into another one, and now they announced they will all open in 2 further weeks. I just wish they had some consideration that we could keep our children home a few extra weeks so they all go back together, then I just have one adjustment to deal with. No idea how i am supposed to juggle getting one to school in a ridiculous one way system which means we have to walk streets away to enter the school and leave via another exist many streets away, it's fine for me usually but I'll have two children with disabilities to try and manage doing that with twice! Plus then have to come home, work with three children with massively different needs and abilities and work and then go back and fit in lunch and whatever else needs doing. I feel overwhelmed already.

I feels beyond some days managing it all at home but having one on actually makes things much more difficult for me and causes extra stress, I have one child who will struggle with that walking and likely have meltdowns which somehow I have to manage all for the sake for two weeks!

Plus I feel for staff being dumped with it all again. Just manage seems to be the message from the government.

I fully appreciate we are all different, but I'm beyond pissed off why parents autonomy is taken away under the threat of fines. Our school is wonderful and I moved to get this school and I'm able to have all my children in the school and they deal amazing with their additional needs. So it's not as simple as just deregistering or I would.

School always go above and beyond but the bloody government feel like a dictatorship, their way even when it's harmful to some. They have made so many questionable decisions we are forced to abide by, I'm so annoyed. One second it's all about safety and the next just throw the kids in and see what happens.

Sorry for the rant, I'm sure I'm being way over the top, I'm just so annoyed at what my next few weeks are like, one child can become violet when his routines are changed as he genuinely just doesn't understand and has profound difficulties, so it's frustrating knowing what he and us are in for for the sake of potentially a few weeks. It's unfair and not right.

user1497207191 · 19/02/2021 14:54

Cases were steeply falling in the November lockdown, despite schools only be closed for half term, so 1 week or so out of the month.

Personally, I'd get schools back and leave pubs/restaurants closed for another month or two, with only modest other relaxations to the covid restrictions over Easter, maybe non food shops allowed to open again.

Makes no sense to have schools back at the same time as pubs/restaurants/shops etc as we'll be back to not knowing what is driving any increase in infection rates.

MsFogi · 19/02/2021 14:55

I don't give a damn whether schools are safe or not - I want them open and my children in them.

RuleWithAWoodenFoot · 19/02/2021 14:55

Schools are safe.

Well, not according to the official gov data quoted in the OP.

Primary might be different to secondary, but they are the children most likely to be using grandparents for wrap around care and so on. So from a community perspective, things possibly not great if community transmission rates are high.

Why would you need teachers vaccinated? Unless they have been asked to shield, they are at very low risk of illness from covid.

For the same reason I'd like the police, nursery workers, supermarket staff and so on, vaccinated. For the same reason that social workers and speech therapists and NHS accounts admin staff have been vaccinated. Specific to teachers - so that they have a lesser chance of catching it and taking out classes for isolation periods. So that they have a lesser chance of catching it and passing it on to their own families/communities. So that they have a lesser chance of being off with long(er) term illness, thereby causing staffing issues in schools.. which in turn impacts on schools being able to stay safely open.

From a primary perspective, I spent most of October and November scared - not about covid (athough at one point almost half of my school were off isolating, staff and child cases) - but about general safety. In my opinion, children weren't safe. Behaviour was hard going for lots of schools last term, and that has a big impact when staffing levels are low. Lots of school staff are on the shielding list too - some of which are on the new list, majority of whom will have had no vaccine on 8th March, or only one dose.

NaughtipussMaximus · 19/02/2021 14:55

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Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

RuleWithAWoodenFoot · 19/02/2021 14:56

I don't give a damn whether schools are safe or not - I want them open and my children in them.

So if a situation is unsafe, you'll send your kids into it? Do you need some social work support?

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 19/02/2021 14:56

And the adults in schools ....

Not to mention children with conditions that make them more at risk, the families they go home too, childcare bubbles, the rule breaking as some people don’t see the need to follow rules if schools are open and the community transmission as parents and relatives go into workplaces etc

FreekStar · 19/02/2021 14:56

Schools absolutely are not safe!

I work in one and we have a big sign saying Covid secure in the entrance way! What bollocks! How are we covid secure? Social distancing is not possible, kids don't wear masks nor do teachers in classrooms, children share equipment at times, we have no protective screens, staff share kitchen facilities and toilets which are not guaranteed to be cleaned between each person, corridors are too narrow for different bubbles to not pass at a 2 m distance, staff are handling children's books that have come from home, marking their books etc. etc.

Can those saying they think schools are safe explain how they are safe?

Newnamefor2021 · 19/02/2021 14:57

@noblegiraffe

cant the ONS disagrees with REACT about primary infection rates, not sure why. ONS has always shown that primary infection rates didn’t increase in the same way as secondary and were less affected by half term closures so it seemed to me that school wasn’t as big a factor for them (they also have much smaller bubbles and were isolating properly which might help).

In terms of the Hokey Cokey, again, primary school attendance rates were far better than secondary.

The yellow line went mad before Christmas but it’s not entirely clear why.

I think primaries did fair better, there could be explanations for this like children didn't display symptoms in the same way as older children.

However, my experience was my children attended 7 days between October and Christmas due to constant isolations. I'm sure we were just unlucky but even so it was horrendous and hugely disruptive for our family.

RuleWithAWoodenFoot · 19/02/2021 14:57

teachers aren’t getting sick in higher proportion than workers in other industries who are also out in risky situations

There, completed that for you. They are getting sick in higher proportions that the general public, discounting profession.

noblegiraffe · 19/02/2021 14:57

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Message deleted by MNHQ as it quoted a deleted post.

RuleWithAWoodenFoot · 19/02/2021 14:58

I like Laura McInterney's idea - stop the triple lock on pensions for 2 years, funnel that money into young people. They have stayed home and protected old folk, it's payback time.

Bluewavescrashing · 19/02/2021 14:59

Teachers and support staff absolutely need to be vaccinated. Breathing in 30 people's air in a small room for 6 hours a day is not ideal. Higher viral load = greater risk.

FreekStar · 19/02/2021 14:59

And when I return to school on Monday I know for a fact that the children in my bubble have not been following lockdown rules- their selfish parents think it's OK for them to visit family and friends and then return to school on Monday to possibly infect me after playing with their cousins during the holiday.

Itisasecret · 19/02/2021 15:00

All the name changers in this thread again. Did you set off a klaxon for them NG?

The bitterness and quite frankly disgusting bullying of you is prolific. Their name changes are very obvious because it is the same bitter rhetoric every time.

Shesingsshangrila · 19/02/2021 15:00

@user1497207191

Cases were steeply falling in the November lockdown, despite schools only be closed for half term, so 1 week or so out of the month.

Personally, I'd get schools back and leave pubs/restaurants closed for another month or two, with only modest other relaxations to the covid restrictions over Easter, maybe non food shops allowed to open again.

Makes no sense to have schools back at the same time as pubs/restaurants/shops etc as we'll be back to not knowing what is driving any increase in infection rates.

This. Everybody on these threads seem to want to ignore the fact that cases dropped in November when schools were open. Presumably because it doesn't fit their narrative.
dipdips · 19/02/2021 15:00

@RuleWithAWoodenFoot. I am no doubt going to offend people here but I just can't see that my parents' generation would have given up so much for so long for my children's generation. Am I wrong? I hope I am.

mumsneedwine · 19/02/2021 15:00

Yes what does 'schools are safe' mean ? How are places crammed with people, no social distancing, little mask wearing and limits ventilation safe ? Because nowhere else is 'safe' using that criteria.
It's a load of bollocks. So many staff are still sick from before Xmas and we've had 7 cases seance January with v limited numbers in.
Since they chose not to vaccinate school staff they can go swing if they think I'm risking my life again.

Timeturnerplease · 19/02/2021 15:00

Vulnerable teachers have been vaccinated

Pregnant teachers haven’t. Pregnant women are considered CV, then advised to wfh from 28 weeks.

A disproportionate amount of primary teachers are women of childbearing age. Last academic year we had four pregnant staff members, affecting 3/7 classes when they went on mat leave.

My headteacher is worried about something happening to me as I have history of GD and an IVF pregnancy, but she simply cannot work out how to fund me working in a socially distanced role before the 28 week mark when I have to do so. And I want to stay with my class, just with some safety measures in place.

Too simplistic to say there are no unvaccinated vulnerable teachers and so staffing without mitigations won’t be an issue.

IloveFebruary · 19/02/2021 15:01

Oh here we go again. Have you put your klaxon out on the staffroom thread so your little buddies can join in yet?
I don’t always agree with Noble but doesn’t the fact they don’t constantly name change show courage and confidence? Adds to their credibility if you ask me.

noblegiraffe · 19/02/2021 15:01

Why doesn't everyone wait and see what they say? All these threads are just speculation

Because the announcement of a ‘schools are safe’ PR campaign suggests what the messaging will be regardless of the details of the plan and it’s wrong.

Fed up of the government propaganda.

OP posts:
8bitgame · 19/02/2021 15:01

Totally agree with you OP

I am not sure if I will send DS back to school pre Easter whatever the government decide.

cantkeepawayforever · 19/02/2021 15:01

Yes, but it’s unclear where they were catching it and why there was a sudden increase given previous rates and nothing much changing.

Noble, in general I am a supporter of your posts.

However, this causal dismissal of a huge rise in primary school aged children is reminiscent of those who insist that secondary pupils with Covid didn't catch it in school.

Primary school pupils caught Covid in school, just as secondary pupils did. I agree that is difficult, because their symptoms are different and they are much more often asymptomatic, to determine whether they were the first person in their family to catch Covid or whether they caught it at home - we often had the experience that a primary aged child was only tested when an older member of the family developed symptoms, and the primary aged child was then found to be positive.

MildredPuppy · 19/02/2021 15:02

I admire your relentless drive to raise awareness and to keep schools safe.

I think bubbles nearly work in primaries. Its a shame they cant be smaller. Either extra space or PT.

I simply cant get my head around secondary at all. Its the transport and the varied timetables that get me. Only practical subjects in? With some massive rejig of the timetable. So a year group per day of the week and they get a day of PE, art/DT/food tech/science practicals. But quite how the teachers do that and deliver home learning is a mystery unless there is more than one teacher.

Redtulipses · 19/02/2021 15:02

Year 10 and 12 need to be back as soon as possible.

Especially as some year 12s are taking one year AS exams this summer which they've had virtually no in school lessons so far...

But ALL children need to get back to school by 8th March in my opinion.