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The government is about to tell you that schools are safe

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 19/02/2021 14:07

It's being reported that the government are about to embark on a two week PR campaign claiming that schools are safe. We've already seen hints of it in that Warwick report that was widely misreported as showing schools don't fuel community transmission (majorly pissing off the author who advocates a cautious return to schools).

The ONS random sampling survey graphs released today are amazing. They show a huge reduction in the infection rates due to lockdown, but the most incredible reduction is in the infection rate of secondary school children. They've gone from being the most infected subset of the population by far, to the 2nd least (behind 70+). It's clear that despite arguments that secondary kids were catching covid out of school (sleepovers, hanging around in parks etc), this just isn't true and the lack of mitigation measures in secondary schools allowed covid to run riot.

We can't re-open in the same way as in September. That would be madness. I know that people will say that it's fine, vulnerable people are being vaccinated and kids don't get it badly BUT what is not acknowledged is that kids aren't being vaccinated, a lot of their teachers won't be by March 8th, nor their parents and so we still need to keep infection levels down. In addition, rampant covid is incredibly disruptive to education. Teachers off for weeks, kids off isolating, some kids in, some kids out...Sept to Dec was a mess that we should be trying our best to avoid repeating. Vaccinations don't address that issue at all.

Community levels are low, but then they were low in September. Pubs, restaurants and non-essential shops are shut now, but we want to be able to open them. We cannot rely on community levels remaining low to stop covid getting into schools and proliferating.

We need to be careful, because certainly secondary schools aren't safe to re-open in a Big Bang gung-ho way that some are advocating, particularly with a more transmissible variant in circulation. Remember to the week before Christmas when school attendance plummeted in Kent and London? In one LA, secondary attendance was at 17%. And yet the DfE decided to threaten schools that wanted to close early to stop the spread with legal action. The schools were right, and the DfE was wrong. Gavin Williamson can't be trusted to have sensible conversations about safety, he's more interested in bully-boy tactics and setting himself up in opposition to teachers and schools.

What can be done? I think there is room to open schools in some way on March 8th. My personal preference (and I'm no spokesperson for teachers here, other opinions will vary) would be primaries back and exam years back for three weeks, then Easter can be used to examine the impact of the full primary re-opening . I'm not sure that school is such a major factor in transmission at primary as it is at secondary for various reasons, however I'm sure that my primary colleagues have their own ideas about what needs to be done there. If full primary re-opening looks untenable, then I would prefer rotas to only certain year groups in. Some school for all pupils would be better than all school for some pupils as we had last year.

Secondary is a different kettle of fish and should be treated separately. Secondaries were a massive risk for transmission. The word 'bubble' should never be used in reference to secondary schools again, as 'bubble' means a group of people who all have to isolate if one of them catches covid, which went in the bin in secondary around the end of September. There are some easy wins in secondary -
Masks in classrooms would be easy and cheap to implement. Exemptions would apply and clear ones could be provided where necessary for lip reading.
A national programme to improve ventilation.
Testing and isolation of any contacts where positive cases are found to flush out asymptomatic pupils (PCR not LFT).
Moving quickly to remote learning where there are outbreaks instead of trying to keep year groups in and schools open as covid works its way through - the attendance just before Christmas in some schools meant kids would have been better served educationally if they were all at home.

Home LFT testing of kids - I'm not convinced tbh, maybe in addition to above measures, but certainly not instead of them.

So if the government messaging is as it has been: schools are safe and no additional measures to contain the spread in secondary are needed then they are lying and our kids deserve a more consistent and sustainable education than they got from September.

Fingers crossed they are more sensible than we have previously seen.

The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
OP posts:
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8
TaxTheRatFarms · 19/02/2021 21:56

*They were passing beers and spliffs!!!

Spit!

Jesus love*

Does this method of transmission only work for teenagers, or do the over 80s of the U.K. have a much wilder social life than I’ve ever imagined? Have bus drivers been regularly snogging their passengers?

For what it’s worth, despite all our lecturing at school about how to keep themselves and their community safe, I still had to tell two teenagers not to share water from the same bottle, in the corridor. (Later heard from their teacher that they walked back into their classroom and handed it back to a different kid, who it actually belonged to.) But yes, it is airborne. Can probably be more easily spread by spit, by also very effectively spread by airborne droplets.

TaxTheRatFarms · 19/02/2021 21:57

*but.

itsgettingwierd · 19/02/2021 21:57

You should tap out, as you have no clue on how a virus spreads. It can be in the food chain and is proven to be.

The report on the covid found in ice cream in China also says there's no evidence it spread by eating food.

I do believe what they say about cold temps though and the virus surviving longer on packaging that's travelled in frozen conditions.

What we need is how much the presence of the disease on surfaces or in foods infects people. How much virus is found and how much is needed in minimum qualities to create infection within a human.

Plus I'm getting more and more cross over these talks of teachers not wanting to work.

I'm not a teacher I'm a support staff role with a specific specialism. I'm classed as an hlta due to grade.
I sometimes cover classes for teacher absence and work in classes too.

Apart from the 2 weeks I had covid and Easter holidays I've been all the time. I've spent 40% of that time actually taking whole classes and teaching. I've done planning as well.

I've worked way more than my pay grade to support children and their parents the through this and to support the teachers who workload has nearly doubled and who are trying to manage 30 children who are either at home, at grandparents, in school and who all have varying home circumstances.

Everyone is knackered. They don't want schools shut. They want them safe. And considering we've all been in them whilst being accused of wanting them shut it's such a stupid argument from that side.

I still can't get my head round why it's safe to be in a room with 30 kids for 6 hours (or 150 different kids in secondary) 5 days a week but yet not safe for me to go to a hairdressers in PPE, a pub/restaurants in masks, with screens etc or a cafe or a friends house, a cinema, theatre or wherever else it's deemed unsafe to open even with covid secure measures!

jenkel · 19/02/2021 21:57

I believe schools are safe for the majority of children and they do need to be back in school, kids have taken the biggest hit and we need to address this fast. I have a 17 and 18 year old, in lower and upper sixth, they should not be in sitting in day in and day out with their parents. But, and there is a big but. Schools are not safe for teachers, support staff and parents at home and we don’t appreciate our teachers enough to give them the vaccine any earlier. Children can and do become ill from covid but I do think the majority have no symptoms, they are the silent spreaders. We all know that especially the younger kids don’t do social distancing, don’t wash their hands etc etc. And the schools are generally way to crowded to enable social distancing, no air conditioning or air filtration. I do want kids to get back to school but not at the sacrifice of school staff, bus drivers and parents at home etc etc, the vast majority of which are probably in vaccinated.

kingat · 19/02/2021 21:57

@Piggywaspushed

It definitley includes my DH kingat , for example. And three members of SLT at my school. Two PE teachers. Two Heads of year.

Many TAs. Off the top of my head.

My question was how many will get vaccinated before Easter as ppl claim it is better to wait till after Easter. Then it will by May and then September until everyone gets it? There is simply no justification for that the risk is too small. It would be like keeping everyone in London home to prevent one person dying in a terrorist attack. Which obviously noone wants to happen, but the world does not stop to prevent any child being stabbed to death by another bored child or to prevent car accidents or million other things that can kill you with higher probability than covid. Those at most risk are being protected it is time for our children to get the priority.
Titsywoo · 19/02/2021 21:58

@exLtEveDallas

Primary pastoral here with a Y11 child.

In an ideal world I’d bring back KS2 on 8 March as they can be more successfully ‘bubbled’, and in secondary Y10 and Y12 because exams have already been changed for Y11 and 13, so I’d rather see the Y10s and 12s being given the chance to do exams normally next year.

Then an Easter firebreak if needed, with the expectation that all children return afterwards.

The exams haven't been changed - we still have no idea what is happening! The Y11/13s have missed 2 of the 5 terms of their GCSE courses so far and they are still possibly going to be tested. If all goes well the year 10s will have only missed one term (assuming next school year has no lockdowns). So I don't think at this stage years 10 and 12 are more important.
TaxTheRatFarms · 19/02/2021 21:58

Children count 10 toes; kids 4

Surely 8?

FiveToFour · 19/02/2021 22:00

Not that it seems to be in the spirit of the latest posts on the thread but I am absolutely in despair that the govt seems to be learning nothing. 3 b** lockdowns and they still have ( apparently) no idea...(Eton perhaps not all it's made out to be?)

But clinging on to the hope that when Boris makes the announcements there will be an actual plan rather than just "ok,everybody back and it'll be fine",maybe phased careful return depending on local conditions,with plans for social distancing,children to wear masks etc.
So children can get back into education and schools may actually be safer.
They seem to be able to manage it elsewhere..

ItsIgginningtolooklikelockdown · 19/02/2021 22:00

My teen has been nowhere without one of us since lockdown began, not saying no teens hang out together but I suspect many are like mine.

Dementedswan · 19/02/2021 22:01

I'm.45, have high BP and heart condion not included on the list... told by GP today I should have my jab in May.

Thislittlefinger123 · 19/02/2021 22:01

I think a return to tiers would be best? Our area had very little disruption to schools sept-dec so to still have them all shut seems disproportionate (as cases in our area are also massively reduced). Far better to have tiers and local closures as and when necessary surely? Yes, a headache for parents and schools but must be better than blanket closures as we have now?

MrsHerculePoirot · 19/02/2021 22:02

@RosesAndHellebores

Read the response please. The marxist principles of the teaching unions with which you appear to sympathise. Children count 10 toes; kids 4.
Eh? This makes no sense at all? Or have I missed something?
Munkeenut · 19/02/2021 22:04

How has 'safe' been operationalised?

CallmeAngelina · 19/02/2021 22:04

Well, I know that noble's thought-provoking threads usually attract attention (from both sides of the fence) but is this one some kind of record for the speed with which it's hurtling towards the 1000 mark?

TheHoneyBadger · 19/02/2021 22:08

They share drinks in school, they suck and chew on pens that have been lent to them, they take bites out of each others food, they snog, they stick all their heads around one phone screen at break to watch something.

Honestly don't know what you think happens in school to make it magically safer than a few kids sharing a drink in an outdoor space.

Would you be happy to go into a small room with 32 other people from 32 different housesholds tomorrow and hang out there for an hour then switch to another 32 people from all different households again on the hour every hour for 5 hours? All without masks obviously. Would you consider it safe?

Common sense surely. How can people swallow such nonsense propaganda whilst in every other area of life they're being asked to stay 2m away, where a mask etc. What strange magic makes schools different?

borntobequiet · 19/02/2021 22:08

How has 'safe' been operationalised?

Do you mean weaponised? That’s quite funny. Is it a joke? Or maybe I’ve missed something.

AltCtrl · 19/02/2021 22:09

@noblegiraffe

prioritise their needs above the Marxist principles of the teaching unions.

Which bit of my OP is Marxist? Always willing to learn.

I doubt anybody could teach you anything OP. You know everything already.
ChloeDecker · 19/02/2021 22:09

What strange magic makes schools different?

It’s the magic tape of course!

(If you’re lucky enough to have it) Grin

herecomesthsun · 19/02/2021 22:10

@borntobequiet

How has 'safe' been operationalised?

Do you mean weaponised? That’s quite funny. Is it a joke? Or maybe I’ve missed something.

This thread is making me want to write poetry.

Or possibly get drunk.

Or both Smile

herecomesthsun · 19/02/2021 22:12

@AltCtrl

Well@noblegiraffe is clearly highly intelligent and very persuasive at putting her point across. I bet she's a first-rate teacher.

SoI would tend to agree with you.

HauntedPencil · 19/02/2021 22:17

Leaks are coming thick and fast it is indeed going to be all schools on the 8th aren't they?

gottakeeponmovin · 19/02/2021 22:19

They need to reopen. The vulnerable have been vaccinated and the kids have suffered enough in terms of socialising and their education. The pressure on parents to teach and work is immense. The sooner the better

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 19/02/2021 22:20

The pressure on parents to teach and work is immense.

Plenty of teachers doing that too.

The vulnerable HAVE NOT been vaccinated.

gottakeeponmovin · 19/02/2021 22:23

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

itsgettingwierd · 19/02/2021 22:23

[quote herecomesthsun]@AltCtrl

Well@noblegiraffe is clearly highly intelligent and very persuasive at putting her point across. I bet she's a first-rate teacher.

SoI would tend to agree with you.[/quote]
I believe she is a first rate teacher. And not just as a maths teacher but as someone who cares about students.

Her, smile, Lola and piggy were invaluable to me a few years back when my ds had school anxiety because his school were failing him. They didn't take teachers and schools side because they're teachers. They took the time to read and listen to what I was saying.

Shame many others don't afford them the same respect and just spout their party line without reading and digesting and considering what's being said.

We've already had numerous people on this thread stating noble is wrong and we should do y and z. X y and z being what's she's suggested in her opening post 🤦🏼‍♀️