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The government is about to tell you that schools are safe

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 19/02/2021 14:07

It's being reported that the government are about to embark on a two week PR campaign claiming that schools are safe. We've already seen hints of it in that Warwick report that was widely misreported as showing schools don't fuel community transmission (majorly pissing off the author who advocates a cautious return to schools).

The ONS random sampling survey graphs released today are amazing. They show a huge reduction in the infection rates due to lockdown, but the most incredible reduction is in the infection rate of secondary school children. They've gone from being the most infected subset of the population by far, to the 2nd least (behind 70+). It's clear that despite arguments that secondary kids were catching covid out of school (sleepovers, hanging around in parks etc), this just isn't true and the lack of mitigation measures in secondary schools allowed covid to run riot.

We can't re-open in the same way as in September. That would be madness. I know that people will say that it's fine, vulnerable people are being vaccinated and kids don't get it badly BUT what is not acknowledged is that kids aren't being vaccinated, a lot of their teachers won't be by March 8th, nor their parents and so we still need to keep infection levels down. In addition, rampant covid is incredibly disruptive to education. Teachers off for weeks, kids off isolating, some kids in, some kids out...Sept to Dec was a mess that we should be trying our best to avoid repeating. Vaccinations don't address that issue at all.

Community levels are low, but then they were low in September. Pubs, restaurants and non-essential shops are shut now, but we want to be able to open them. We cannot rely on community levels remaining low to stop covid getting into schools and proliferating.

We need to be careful, because certainly secondary schools aren't safe to re-open in a Big Bang gung-ho way that some are advocating, particularly with a more transmissible variant in circulation. Remember to the week before Christmas when school attendance plummeted in Kent and London? In one LA, secondary attendance was at 17%. And yet the DfE decided to threaten schools that wanted to close early to stop the spread with legal action. The schools were right, and the DfE was wrong. Gavin Williamson can't be trusted to have sensible conversations about safety, he's more interested in bully-boy tactics and setting himself up in opposition to teachers and schools.

What can be done? I think there is room to open schools in some way on March 8th. My personal preference (and I'm no spokesperson for teachers here, other opinions will vary) would be primaries back and exam years back for three weeks, then Easter can be used to examine the impact of the full primary re-opening . I'm not sure that school is such a major factor in transmission at primary as it is at secondary for various reasons, however I'm sure that my primary colleagues have their own ideas about what needs to be done there. If full primary re-opening looks untenable, then I would prefer rotas to only certain year groups in. Some school for all pupils would be better than all school for some pupils as we had last year.

Secondary is a different kettle of fish and should be treated separately. Secondaries were a massive risk for transmission. The word 'bubble' should never be used in reference to secondary schools again, as 'bubble' means a group of people who all have to isolate if one of them catches covid, which went in the bin in secondary around the end of September. There are some easy wins in secondary -
Masks in classrooms would be easy and cheap to implement. Exemptions would apply and clear ones could be provided where necessary for lip reading.
A national programme to improve ventilation.
Testing and isolation of any contacts where positive cases are found to flush out asymptomatic pupils (PCR not LFT).
Moving quickly to remote learning where there are outbreaks instead of trying to keep year groups in and schools open as covid works its way through - the attendance just before Christmas in some schools meant kids would have been better served educationally if they were all at home.

Home LFT testing of kids - I'm not convinced tbh, maybe in addition to above measures, but certainly not instead of them.

So if the government messaging is as it has been: schools are safe and no additional measures to contain the spread in secondary are needed then they are lying and our kids deserve a more consistent and sustainable education than they got from September.

Fingers crossed they are more sensible than we have previously seen.

The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
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8
HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 19/02/2021 22:40

Teachers have their kids in school

Not if they're teaching from home they don't....

MrsHamlet · 19/02/2021 22:41

Teachers have their kids in school
Teachers CAN have their kids in school. Many don't.

RHODXB · 19/02/2021 22:41

Completely appreciate space restrictions would be more difficult with larger class sizes in UK state schools. However, as an example my daughter has 22 children in her classroom with all furniture outside of the tables removed. Again, I appreciate smaller classrooms in the Uk would not accommodate these numbers. However, following these kind of guidelines alongside some type of rotation e.g 50 % of students in at a time and all wearing masks, being kept in one classroom rather than moving around for lunch etc might be achievable in some schools

TheHoneyBadger · 19/02/2021 22:41

Nope Leopard. Most teachers don't have their kids in school because they know the risks and the pressure. I initially had ds going in for a few days a week and then the piss takers started insisting their kids had to come in because they couldn't make them work at home and it turned into a zoo and I took him out.

leopardspotsdotdotdot · 19/02/2021 22:41

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

The pressure on parents to teach and work is immense.

Plenty of teachers doing that too.

The vulnerable HAVE NOT been vaccinated.

Teachers have their kids in school. They are key workers.

That’s not the same as working and teaching!

RHODXB · 19/02/2021 22:42

Incidentally, teachers here are also being prioritised for vaccination. It is crazy this is not happening in the Uk. However we have a very different demographic with less older and vulnerable people (due to a largely young and healthy expat population) so I appreciate that is is difficult to draw comparisons on this

Abraxan · 19/02/2021 22:43

ARGH!!!

NOT ALL VULNERABLE STAFF (and parents) HAVE BEEN VACCINATED.

GROUP 6 IS CLINICALLY VULNERABLE - ONLY JUST STARTED ON MONDAY, MANY PLACES NOWHERE NEAR STATING THEM. LET ALONE 3 WEEKS POST FIRST VACCINE.

GROUPS 7 - 9 (also more vulnerable than the general population) ARE NOT EVEN STARTED IN THE MAJORITY OF THE UK.

Since when did only groups 1-4 count as vulnerable. Until the last couple of weeks we were classing groups 1-9 as vulnerable. Now it suits the rhetoric to ignore 5-9 doesn't it?!

Redlocks28 · 19/02/2021 22:43

Teachers have their kids in school

None of the teachers at my school have their own children in school.

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 19/02/2021 22:43

Many autistic kids rely on thier routine, yes it may not seem important to you but for them one minor hiccup can cause a detrimental breakdown. Anxiety goes through the roof and it has a knock on affect for everyone involved so it’s not as simple as just stopping to avoid death because he can’t understand some emotions.

I know they rely on routine. We have autistic students coming in to school to keep some kind of routine.

But freeing up his teacher isn't the only factor. His teacher/he may need to isolate. His teacher may be called back to cover for an isolating teacher. The lower the safety measures, the more likely this is to happen. It's not as simple as 'open the schools and everything will go back to, and stay, normal'.

siestalady · 19/02/2021 22:43

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

I dont understand the panic at all,but those who are so afraid are free to stay home as long as they want, why not?

CV teachers won't have all been vaccinated by 8th March, they can't just refuse to work.

I thought teachers had the option to claim unsafe working conditions or whatever that section 44 thing was that so many (and definitely not at all smugly) announced they had done on here, prior to the actual closures?
leopardspotsdotdotdot · 19/02/2021 22:44

@TheHoneyBadger

Nope Leopard. Most teachers don't have their kids in school because they know the risks and the pressure. I initially had ds going in for a few days a week and then the piss takers started insisting their kids had to come in because they couldn't make them work at home and it turned into a zoo and I took him out.
Give me stats then?

How are they in school working, mostly online if their kids aren’t in school?

I’m self employed, working, homeschooling x 2, studying a masters, a single parent, and about to hit my limit. Very very close to calling an end.

TheHoneyBadger · 19/02/2021 22:44

Presumably also private schools and teachers therefore bring in fees and school closures don't help revenue so more valuing of them as resources I'd think RHO.

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 19/02/2021 22:44

Teachers have their kids in school. They are key workers.

That’s not the same as working and teaching!

Not here they don't. School say the kids have a parent WFH so the kids need to be home!!

leopardspotsdotdotdot · 19/02/2021 22:44

@Redlocks28

Teachers have their kids in school

None of the teachers at my school have their own children in school.

Where are their kids then?
HauntedPencil · 19/02/2021 22:45

To add our teacher children aren't in either.

Then we were asked to keep them home and work from home which isn't the case everywhere

MrsHamlet · 19/02/2021 22:45

Many autistic kids rely on thier routine, yes it may not seem important to you but for them one minor hiccup can cause a detrimental breakdown. Anxiety goes through the roof and it has a knock on affect for everyone involved so it’s not as simple as just stopping to avoid death because he can’t understand some emotions.
I teach an autistic boy in my current y11. He found lockdown 1 exceptionally hard work but we managed to get him set up with his TA so that she could support him remotely. We've got it nailed for him now but I know he's found it incredibly tough. I will be really happy to see him again.

HauntedPencil · 19/02/2021 22:45

They are working at home with them.

Thisisconfusing · 19/02/2021 22:45

I wholeheartedly agree with @noblegiraffe that any return to school must be staggered and in a measured way. Absolutely everyone wants to get the kids back - the schools do as well but it must be done safely . If they stagger the return, painful though it is for us parents, then it is possible to assess the impact at every stage to make sure things don’t kick off again . Too many on this thread have been commenting that the vulnerable have been vaccinated . This is simply not true . Aside from the fact that few people have had the complete vaccination course, many vulnerable under 16s have not been vaccinated at all . Nor have 16/17 year old moderate asthmatics who are described by the NHS as vulnerable. Also a 25 year old asthmatic teacher will not have been vaccinated since the bizarre decision to vaccinate most asthmatics with age groups . Finally please consider the variants . We live in an area where the Kent variant ripped through before Christmas . Not only were whole year groups badly affected ( eg 96 in one lower sixth year group ) as opposed to a handful of cases with the original virus - I know lots of families whom this infection was taken home to too with varying degrees of illness including some becoming quite seriously ill. One teacher at our school in their thirties with no underlying issues spent Christmas in Intensive care. We all want this over and to get our kids back where they need to be but seriously what is the point of blowing it now. Those keen to go for the Big Bang approach - well it might be ok but it might go horribly wrong . Be careful what you wish for . I hope they make the right decision on this .

CallmeAngelina · 19/02/2021 22:46

"I thought teachers had the option to claim unsafe working conditions or whatever that section 44 thing was that so many (and definitely not at all smugly) announced they had done on here, prior to the actual closures?"
Section 44 is not just an option for teachers. It applies to all workers.

BettysButtons · 19/02/2021 22:46

All this talk about beer, splits, snogging and spit... Yes, spit can be a problem 😅
1st break duty in September and boy decided to shower everyone around him with the water he’d just filled his mouth with. That was nice.

MrsHamlet · 19/02/2021 22:46

I thought teachers had the option to claim unsafe working conditions or whatever that section 44 thing was that so many (and definitely not at all smugly) announced they had done on here, prior to the actual closures?
EVERYONE has the ability to do this, not just teachers.

TheHoneyBadger · 19/02/2021 22:47

Give me stats!

Do you hear yourself? I'm sorry you're feeling desperate but I don't see how ranting at teachers helps.

I'm a teacher my son is not in school. Perhaps ask other teachers on the thread if their children are in school. I know most teachers are not sending their kids in if in any way possible.

siestalady · 19/02/2021 22:47

@Redlocks28

Teachers have their kids in school

None of the teachers at my school have their own children in school.

Well all of the teachers at my school (and GP and - guess what- even an ICU doctor) have put their kids in school so...!? What's your point?
HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 19/02/2021 22:47

There aren't stats because government don't want to know. If they don't collect the data, it doesn't exist.

Being a dick, your masters is a choice, drop that for now if it's too much. Everyone's having a shit time, doesn't mean that opening schools with no extra safety measures is a good idea.

carolinesbaby · 19/02/2021 22:47

Have any of you teachers ever been in a food factory? Go and spend a couple of hours in your local meat processing plant and then come back and read what you've been banging on about for months.

You're not special.