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The government is about to tell you that schools are safe

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 19/02/2021 14:07

It's being reported that the government are about to embark on a two week PR campaign claiming that schools are safe. We've already seen hints of it in that Warwick report that was widely misreported as showing schools don't fuel community transmission (majorly pissing off the author who advocates a cautious return to schools).

The ONS random sampling survey graphs released today are amazing. They show a huge reduction in the infection rates due to lockdown, but the most incredible reduction is in the infection rate of secondary school children. They've gone from being the most infected subset of the population by far, to the 2nd least (behind 70+). It's clear that despite arguments that secondary kids were catching covid out of school (sleepovers, hanging around in parks etc), this just isn't true and the lack of mitigation measures in secondary schools allowed covid to run riot.

We can't re-open in the same way as in September. That would be madness. I know that people will say that it's fine, vulnerable people are being vaccinated and kids don't get it badly BUT what is not acknowledged is that kids aren't being vaccinated, a lot of their teachers won't be by March 8th, nor their parents and so we still need to keep infection levels down. In addition, rampant covid is incredibly disruptive to education. Teachers off for weeks, kids off isolating, some kids in, some kids out...Sept to Dec was a mess that we should be trying our best to avoid repeating. Vaccinations don't address that issue at all.

Community levels are low, but then they were low in September. Pubs, restaurants and non-essential shops are shut now, but we want to be able to open them. We cannot rely on community levels remaining low to stop covid getting into schools and proliferating.

We need to be careful, because certainly secondary schools aren't safe to re-open in a Big Bang gung-ho way that some are advocating, particularly with a more transmissible variant in circulation. Remember to the week before Christmas when school attendance plummeted in Kent and London? In one LA, secondary attendance was at 17%. And yet the DfE decided to threaten schools that wanted to close early to stop the spread with legal action. The schools were right, and the DfE was wrong. Gavin Williamson can't be trusted to have sensible conversations about safety, he's more interested in bully-boy tactics and setting himself up in opposition to teachers and schools.

What can be done? I think there is room to open schools in some way on March 8th. My personal preference (and I'm no spokesperson for teachers here, other opinions will vary) would be primaries back and exam years back for three weeks, then Easter can be used to examine the impact of the full primary re-opening . I'm not sure that school is such a major factor in transmission at primary as it is at secondary for various reasons, however I'm sure that my primary colleagues have their own ideas about what needs to be done there. If full primary re-opening looks untenable, then I would prefer rotas to only certain year groups in. Some school for all pupils would be better than all school for some pupils as we had last year.

Secondary is a different kettle of fish and should be treated separately. Secondaries were a massive risk for transmission. The word 'bubble' should never be used in reference to secondary schools again, as 'bubble' means a group of people who all have to isolate if one of them catches covid, which went in the bin in secondary around the end of September. There are some easy wins in secondary -
Masks in classrooms would be easy and cheap to implement. Exemptions would apply and clear ones could be provided where necessary for lip reading.
A national programme to improve ventilation.
Testing and isolation of any contacts where positive cases are found to flush out asymptomatic pupils (PCR not LFT).
Moving quickly to remote learning where there are outbreaks instead of trying to keep year groups in and schools open as covid works its way through - the attendance just before Christmas in some schools meant kids would have been better served educationally if they were all at home.

Home LFT testing of kids - I'm not convinced tbh, maybe in addition to above measures, but certainly not instead of them.

So if the government messaging is as it has been: schools are safe and no additional measures to contain the spread in secondary are needed then they are lying and our kids deserve a more consistent and sustainable education than they got from September.

Fingers crossed they are more sensible than we have previously seen.

The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
OP posts:
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8
siestalady · 19/02/2021 22:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

MrsHamlet · 19/02/2021 22:25

@RosesAndHellebores

Read the response please. The marxist principles of the teaching unions with which you appear to sympathise. Children count 10 toes; kids 4.
Please tell me exactly which Marxist principles these are.
herecomesthsun · 19/02/2021 22:25

@gottakeeponmovin

I think *@noblegiraffe* needs to get another job
Secretary of State for Education would be good.

Though it would be a shame to lose a very good maths teacher.

Ltdannygreen · 19/02/2021 22:25

@Eyewhisker

Noble - I have two secondary aged kids who are both really struggling. One has special needs, not in an exam year and is simply incapable of focusing on a virtual lesson where the teacher lectures but there is no feedback and no attention if he drifts off.

Every day he is off school is damaging his future prospects.

The difference last term made was amazing. His school stayed open throughout. He had to do some half-days but was never sent home.

His senco has said that they all want to be back in. They can see the damage that failure to provide an education is doing, especially to those who need it most.

Your ‘solution’ would not have him back, even though those who are actually vulnerable to the disease have been vaccinated.

I am not willing for the children of this country to be thrown under the bus any longer. Vaccinate the teachers, fine. Wear masks, fine but it is beyond selfish of adults to deprive children of education and social development.

I feel you. Ds13 has special needs, we are waiting on an ECHp plan to be finalised. He was allowed to go back but they needed his small group teacher (there’s usually him, 2 other boys and the teacher) to teach the critical worker kids so he couldn’t be in his group as usual and would have had to be in a class with 20 other kids. He struggles with full classes and only attends one a day sometimes one a week depending on his mood. He hates school but actually said he wants to go back to normal. His anxiety is through the roof. He relies on routine and his routine has been changed countless times thanks to COVID.
MartinAtAFuneral · 19/02/2021 22:26

@HauntedPencil

Leaks are coming thick and fast it is indeed going to be all schools on the 8th aren't they?
God, I hope so.
borntobequiet · 19/02/2021 22:27

@gottakeeponmovin

I think *@noblegiraffe* needs to get another job
Secretary of State for Education. Instead of the muppet currently in post.
borntobequiet · 19/02/2021 22:28

Oops X post

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 19/02/2021 22:28

He relies on routine and his routine has been changed countless times thanks to COVID.

Yet a return with some safety measures would likely mean a more stable routine. Less chance of a 10 day isolation, less chance of him catching Covid.

SeldomFollowedIt · 19/02/2021 22:28

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

RHODXB · 19/02/2021 22:28

I am in UAE and schools have been open all year here. Chairs in classrooms must be 1.5m apart at all times and masks must be worn by all adults without exception. Chn year 2 and above
Also must wear masks at all times. It's not ideal but it's meant children have been able to stay in face to face teaching for the most part (give or take periods of isolation for classes when a case
Arises for 10 days). The impact on my own daughters mental well-being has been huge and she is a different child than she was during lockdown last academic year

MrsHamlet · 19/02/2021 22:29

The Y11/13s have missed 2 of the 5 terms of their GCSE courses so far and they are still possibly going to be tested.
Autumn 1 - in school
Spring 1 - in school bar maybe 2 weeks
Summer 1 - out at the behest of the government
Autumn 2 - in school. Possibly disrupted but remote education mandated
Spring half term 2 - out but remote

They've missed a term and a half. Stop hyperbolising.

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 19/02/2021 22:29

Chairs in classrooms must be 1.5m apart at all times

Impossible in most UK classrooms.

kingat · 19/02/2021 22:30

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

The pressure on parents to teach and work is immense.

Plenty of teachers doing that too.

The vulnerable HAVE NOT been vaccinated.

Those at most risk of dying have!!!!

We can't hang around for every single person whose risk is still tiny,but slightly higher. There is a nice calculator on Oxford's site.

I am in last group, but still it can kill me, you just cant be sure the same as I cant be sure i wont get cancer tomorrow.

I dont understand the panic at all,but those who are so afraid are free to stay home as long as they want, why not?

MartinAtAFuneral · 19/02/2021 22:30

@MartinAtAFuneral

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.
Eh?

Is this where I told one poster to 'go away' (using exactly those words)?

If so, I have read much worse on here...

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 19/02/2021 22:31

I dont understand the panic at all,but those who are so afraid are free to stay home as long as they want, why not?

CV teachers won't have all been vaccinated by 8th March, they can't just refuse to work.

herecomesthsun · 19/02/2021 22:33

@HauntedPencil

Leaks are coming thick and fast it is indeed going to be all schools on the 8th aren't they?
I haven't seen evidence of leaks (ie I had a look on the Telegraph site) in the course of a quick browse.

However, it appears that school leaders and Chris Whitty would be very unhappy with this.

www.theguardian.com/education/2021/feb/19/whitty-at-odds-with-johnson-over-big-bang-reopening-of-schools-in-england

And union leaders have said that if all children need to be tested twice before going back, they can only manage 1 year at a time what with the teaching and the testing.

So, anyone's guess.

(do you have any links?)

itsgettingwierd · 19/02/2021 22:33

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

Chairs in classrooms must be 1.5m apart at all times

Impossible in most UK classrooms.

You'd be lucky to get 1.5cm apart in some schools I've been in!
herecomesthsun · 19/02/2021 22:34

@borntobequiet

Oops X post
great minds think alike
TheHoneyBadger · 19/02/2021 22:36

I'm guessing as you're an English teacher that hyperbolising is a real word. I like it.

Interesting that people think teachers who advocate for safe schools and less disruption to education should find another job. Would you really want people who don't care about safety or repeated disruptions teaching your kids?

I'm also confused about the whole marxist thing. What exactly is it that you see as marxist about teachers or unions? Is safety at work or wanted policy based on science inherently marxist? Is thinking that experts should be consulted in decision making rather than government issuing dictats and chanting slogans marxist?

HauntedPencil · 19/02/2021 22:37

Tweeted from the telegraph - it said that it's still fluid as there is pushback from the unions

Abraxan · 19/02/2021 22:37

..even though those who are actually vulnerable to the disease have been vaccinated.

No they haven't. I keep reading this but seriously there are many vulnerable staff and parents who are not yet vaccinated and won't be before March 8!

Many places are only just starting in group 5. Many surgeries are saying it'll be a little while yet until they start the clinically vulnerable group 6. Immunity for the first vaccine takes about 3 weeks after that.

I'm CV and having my first vaccine next week. I will return to school in March 8 (infant school so highly likely to be back full time for all) but will only be 1.5 weeks post vaccine. I have colleagues I similar positions and some not yet done. We also have several staff who are over 50, so groups 8 and 9. They won't be vaccinated for a good while yet, a few more weeks.

MrsHamlet · 19/02/2021 22:38

It is also more polite than "talking utter shite

HauntedPencil · 19/02/2021 22:38

"We've heard this is happening"

leopardspotsdotdotdot · 19/02/2021 22:39

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

The pressure on parents to teach and work is immense.

Plenty of teachers doing that too.

The vulnerable HAVE NOT been vaccinated.

Teachers have their kids in school
Ltdannygreen · 19/02/2021 22:40

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

He relies on routine and his routine has been changed countless times thanks to COVID.

Yet a return with some safety measures would likely mean a more stable routine. Less chance of a 10 day isolation, less chance of him catching Covid.

He had less chance anyway, he was in a room with 3 other people that’s it, he didn’t even make it back to even one class after the November lockdown. We just need to free up his teacher and he can go back to his routine. Many autistic kids rely on thier routine, yes it may not seem important to you but for them one minor hiccup can cause a detrimental breakdown. Anxiety goes through the roof and it has a knock on affect for everyone involved so it’s not as simple as just stopping to avoid death because he can’t understand some emotions.