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The government is about to tell you that schools are safe

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 19/02/2021 14:07

It's being reported that the government are about to embark on a two week PR campaign claiming that schools are safe. We've already seen hints of it in that Warwick report that was widely misreported as showing schools don't fuel community transmission (majorly pissing off the author who advocates a cautious return to schools).

The ONS random sampling survey graphs released today are amazing. They show a huge reduction in the infection rates due to lockdown, but the most incredible reduction is in the infection rate of secondary school children. They've gone from being the most infected subset of the population by far, to the 2nd least (behind 70+). It's clear that despite arguments that secondary kids were catching covid out of school (sleepovers, hanging around in parks etc), this just isn't true and the lack of mitigation measures in secondary schools allowed covid to run riot.

We can't re-open in the same way as in September. That would be madness. I know that people will say that it's fine, vulnerable people are being vaccinated and kids don't get it badly BUT what is not acknowledged is that kids aren't being vaccinated, a lot of their teachers won't be by March 8th, nor their parents and so we still need to keep infection levels down. In addition, rampant covid is incredibly disruptive to education. Teachers off for weeks, kids off isolating, some kids in, some kids out...Sept to Dec was a mess that we should be trying our best to avoid repeating. Vaccinations don't address that issue at all.

Community levels are low, but then they were low in September. Pubs, restaurants and non-essential shops are shut now, but we want to be able to open them. We cannot rely on community levels remaining low to stop covid getting into schools and proliferating.

We need to be careful, because certainly secondary schools aren't safe to re-open in a Big Bang gung-ho way that some are advocating, particularly with a more transmissible variant in circulation. Remember to the week before Christmas when school attendance plummeted in Kent and London? In one LA, secondary attendance was at 17%. And yet the DfE decided to threaten schools that wanted to close early to stop the spread with legal action. The schools were right, and the DfE was wrong. Gavin Williamson can't be trusted to have sensible conversations about safety, he's more interested in bully-boy tactics and setting himself up in opposition to teachers and schools.

What can be done? I think there is room to open schools in some way on March 8th. My personal preference (and I'm no spokesperson for teachers here, other opinions will vary) would be primaries back and exam years back for three weeks, then Easter can be used to examine the impact of the full primary re-opening . I'm not sure that school is such a major factor in transmission at primary as it is at secondary for various reasons, however I'm sure that my primary colleagues have their own ideas about what needs to be done there. If full primary re-opening looks untenable, then I would prefer rotas to only certain year groups in. Some school for all pupils would be better than all school for some pupils as we had last year.

Secondary is a different kettle of fish and should be treated separately. Secondaries were a massive risk for transmission. The word 'bubble' should never be used in reference to secondary schools again, as 'bubble' means a group of people who all have to isolate if one of them catches covid, which went in the bin in secondary around the end of September. There are some easy wins in secondary -
Masks in classrooms would be easy and cheap to implement. Exemptions would apply and clear ones could be provided where necessary for lip reading.
A national programme to improve ventilation.
Testing and isolation of any contacts where positive cases are found to flush out asymptomatic pupils (PCR not LFT).
Moving quickly to remote learning where there are outbreaks instead of trying to keep year groups in and schools open as covid works its way through - the attendance just before Christmas in some schools meant kids would have been better served educationally if they were all at home.

Home LFT testing of kids - I'm not convinced tbh, maybe in addition to above measures, but certainly not instead of them.

So if the government messaging is as it has been: schools are safe and no additional measures to contain the spread in secondary are needed then they are lying and our kids deserve a more consistent and sustainable education than they got from September.

Fingers crossed they are more sensible than we have previously seen.

The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
OP posts:
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8
Abraxan · 19/02/2021 22:48

Why can't primaries open like they did in September? Ours had one case just before half term and has had no more. They currently have almost 50% of children in during this lockdown and everything is working fine with no further cases.

Not all schools did this well. Many did not manage that way.

My own infant school - all 9 classes had at least 1 period of isolation, some had two. Approx 75% of staff caught covid, as did several parents and their children.

This wasn't unique locally.

ChloeDecker · 19/02/2021 22:48

Teachers have their kids in school. They are key workers.

That’s not the same as working and teaching!

I am a teacher and my KS1 child is not physically in school. Incidentally, my colleagues are also keeping their children at home. Secondary teachers so teaching live lessons from home, so is doable.

Anecdata I know but it’s rubbish to say all teachers have their children currently in school.

Redlocks28 · 19/02/2021 22:48

Where are their kids then?

At home with them whilst they are teaching their own classes from home.

TaxTheRatFarms · 19/02/2021 22:49

Leopards My kids have been home while I’ve been working (teaching live lessons). Ds1 in year 7 is receiving live lessons from his school and gets on with his own work, ds2 is year 5 and needs more guidance and help. Dh works from home so we didn’t qualify to send them in under his school’s rules.

So yeah. I’ve been teaching my students all day, helping ds2 when I finish work*, checking ds1 is getting on with his work. I’m not sure how that’s not the same as working and teaching...

(*It was SO much easier for me to teach year 11 English than teach year 5 maths! Primary teachers, you are amazing!)

BettyBoomerang · 19/02/2021 22:49

Teachers have their kids in school

None of the teachers at my school have their own children in school.

None of the teachers I know have their own kids in school, even though they could have a place. They're juggling teaching from home with supervising their own children. They know damn well that schools aren't safe and never will be.

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 19/02/2021 22:49

@Reachersloveinterest I'd happily back a campaign for better working conditions for factory workers. Can you please point me in the direction of one? I've seen lots of outbreaks in processing plants which is a concern.

siestalady · 19/02/2021 22:49

@Redlocks28

Where are their kids then?

At home with them whilst they are teaching their own classes from home.

Apart from those who send their kids to school, eh?
kingat · 19/02/2021 22:51

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

I dont understand the panic at all,but those who are so afraid are free to stay home as long as they want, why not?

CV teachers won't have all been vaccinated by 8th March, they can't just refuse to work.

Why not?
BettysButtons · 19/02/2021 22:51

Go and spend a couple of hours in your local meat processing plant and then come back and read what you've been banging on about for months

Are the workers play fighting, rolling around on the grass together at break times/lunchtimes, spitting in each other’s drinks for fun? I’d complain to management if I were you!

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 19/02/2021 22:51

Because they wont get paid.

RuleWithAWoodenFoot · 19/02/2021 22:51

Most teachers don't have their kids in school because they know the risks and the pressure.

Yep. Mine goes in for the day when both her dad and I are out at work. A friend (whose child goes in on the same day) stands in the park with the two of them, giving us a drop off option so we can go to work.

The rest of the time she is at home. Mostly watching TV I'm afraid.

MrsHamlet · 19/02/2021 22:52

Well all of the teachers at my school (and GP and - guess what- even an ICU doctor) have put their kids in school so...!? What's your point?
Well very few of mine have. What's your point?

siestalady · 19/02/2021 22:52

@BettyBoomerang

Teachers have their kids in school

None of the teachers at my school have their own children in school.

None of the teachers I know have their own kids in school, even though they could have a place. They're juggling teaching from home with supervising their own children. They know damn well that schools aren't safe and never will be.

Well every single teacher I know has their kid in school.

Also "schools will never be safe" - I think you just talked yourself out of a job then, love. I hear food processing factories have safe working conditions though.

ChloeDecker · 19/02/2021 22:52

@Reachersloveinterest

Have any of you teachers ever been in a food factory? Go and spend a couple of hours in your local meat processing plant and then come back and read what you've been banging on about for months.

You're not special.

I know we are not special. And factory food workers have also been complaining and balloting to strike in some areas and I fully support that. It’s so disingenuous to say no one else is complaining.

Everyone should expect some basic safer measures in their workplace.

siestalady · 19/02/2021 22:53

@MrsHamlet

Well all of the teachers at my school (and GP and - guess what- even an ICU doctor) have put their kids in school so...!? What's your point? Well very few of mine have. What's your point?
My point is that one person says "everyone does x" is not necessarily indicative of public mood/what is being seen across the country. That's my point.
Redlocks28 · 19/02/2021 22:53

Apart from those who send their kids to school, eh?

I am not sure why you are picking on my post-I am speaking for the teachers at my school, as you would know if you read my posts.

Well all of the teachers at my school (and GP and-guess what-even an ICU doctor) have put their kids in school so...!? What's your point?

My point is that the teachers at my school are teaching their class from home whilst their own children are also at home. Was that difficult to understand?

Abraxan · 19/02/2021 22:54

If primary teachers have any good ideas for mitigation measures that can be implemented with all kids in then that would be great. Marquees in playgrounds is a good one for those with space.

I don't know the answer. We are an old Victorian school which already has permanent 'temporary cabin classrooms' and a concrete sloped playground.

Sadly my experience was that covid can be very prevalent in primary schools, even with only 4-7 year old pupils and with staff socially distanced from one another and other adults. There is no social distancing from the children at all; it's not possible between them and between them and the staff.

Rota systems would have been better initially but they'll never do it so it's just back to as before and hope for them best, I guess.

Luckily I'll have my vaccine next week. As I've had covid then, if I have immunity, it'll be a good booster and if no immunity it'll be a first dose immunity - so I'm okay pretty much now. Many of our staff have had covid so hopefully most will have some immunity still. Otherwise fingers crossed for the over 50s and CV who are still waiting for that vaccine.

TaxTheRatFarms · 19/02/2021 22:55

@Reachersloveinterest

Have any of you teachers ever been in a food factory? Go and spend a couple of hours in your local meat processing plant and then come back and read what you've been banging on about for months.

You're not special.

It’s not an either/or situation though, is it? Workers in factories, especially meat packing/processing, need much better safety measures. So do police, paramedics, nhs cleaners and ported, bus drivers. I don’t think any teachers have ever claimed to be “special”, and asking for safety measures so schools can stay consistently open, for students’ safety and attainment shouldn’t ever be a controversial opinion.
chocolateisavegetable · 19/02/2021 22:55

@Reachersloveinterest

Have any of you teachers ever been in a food factory? Go and spend a couple of hours in your local meat processing plant and then come back and read what you've been banging on about for months.

You're not special.

@Reachersloveinterest How can we help? I would definitely like to support a campaign to get better conditions for people working in food factories.
Butmiss · 19/02/2021 22:55

@noblegiraffe, you made some excellent points in your OP. It is a shame that some users didn't read it properly though. Hmm

Redlocks28 · 19/02/2021 22:56

My point is that one person says "everyone does x" is not necessarily indicative of public mood/what is being seen across the country. That's my point.

Well, it only actually appears to be you making the sweeping generalisations, doesn’t it?

TheHoneyBadger · 19/02/2021 22:56

Oh we've got the calling women, 'love', types in. Lovely.

kingat · 19/02/2021 22:57

@Abraxan

ARGH!!!

NOT ALL VULNERABLE STAFF (and parents) HAVE BEEN VACCINATED.

GROUP 6 IS CLINICALLY VULNERABLE - ONLY JUST STARTED ON MONDAY, MANY PLACES NOWHERE NEAR STATING THEM. LET ALONE 3 WEEKS POST FIRST VACCINE.

GROUPS 7 - 9 (also more vulnerable than the general population) ARE NOT EVEN STARTED IN THE MAJORITY OF THE UK.

Since when did only groups 1-4 count as vulnerable. Until the last couple of weeks we were classing groups 1-9 as vulnerable. Now it suits the rhetoric to ignore 5-9 doesn't it?!

So nothing will change wrt that by Easter. We closed the schools to not overload NHS not to have every person vaccinated.
MrsHamlet · 19/02/2021 22:57

Oooh genderlect :)

TheHoneyBadger · 19/02/2021 22:58

There are some really aggressive posters on here. What does it achieve?