Captain Sir Tom Moore: Cleric's apology for tweet condemning nationwide clap 'does not undo hurt'

[trulydelicious]

news.sky.com/story/captain-sir-tom-moore-apology-for-tweet-condemning-clap-for-captain-tom-does-not-undo-hurt-12208212

It's worrying how some can harbour so much hate and still be allowed to hold a position in the Church (and fuel division through Twitter)

Anyone with a house that size is rich by my definition. It's way above uk nat average.

Do you think all clergy should stay put of politics?

The vicar standing as a ukip candidate?
The pro brexit vicar?
The archbishop of Canterbury talking about homelessness?

Personally I don't disagree about not standing as a politician and many social issues are political and giving one of the tennents of Christianity is helping those less fortunate, standing up for those that are marginalised, I'm not sure how that would work. Jesus was political when he stood up for those with leprosy or spoke about taxes.

@PusheenLove

Anyone with a house that size is rich by my definition. It's way above uk nat average.

So what

I agree with the tweet. It didn’t criticise captain Tom or even mention his skin colour.

For those who can’t see that, may I suggest some reading comprehension exercises?

YY

Do you think all clergy should stay put of politics?

Party politics yes, though I see no problem in talking about issues which could be considered "political" in the broadest sense
Trouble is, some can't seem to help themselves and would probably struggle to recognise the difference, which IMO can lead to problems if they're using an unelected platform to push any agenda

For those who can’t see that, may I suggest some reading comprehension exercises?

I keep seeing this suggestion directed towards posters who don't agree with the original posters position, as though to say you are ill educated and stupid if you don't agree with me, it's the only possible explanation. I don't think those who say it realise quite how obnoxious they sound and how easy they are making to have any point they made totally dismissed.

@HmmSureJan it’s not as obnoxious as being racist, and if you can’t see that he didn’t insult CT OR bring his skin colour into it then I don’t know what to tell you.

I didn’t say ‘if you don’t agree with me then you’re ill educated’. The original tweet DIDN’T criticise CT OR mention his skin colour. There’s no ‘agreement’ or ‘disagreement’ about that - if you can’t see that then you DO need to improve your reading comprehension.

HTH.

@Theworldisfullofgs

Do you think all clergy should stay put of politics

They all should stay out in my view, yes

Lots of religions tell people how to vote but not the main ones in the UK.

"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's" - remains wise.

[quote ilikebooksandplants]@HmmSureJan it’s not as obnoxious as being racist, and if you can’t see that he didn’t insult CT OR bring his skin colour into it then I don’t know what to tell you.

I didn’t say ‘if you don’t agree with me then you’re ill educated’. The original tweet DIDN’T criticise CT OR mention his skin colour. There’s no ‘agreement’ or ‘disagreement’ about that - if you can’t see that then you DO need to improve your reading comprehension.

HTH.[/quote]
But the thread wasn’t about CT being criticised, it was about the fact that the tweet was directed at those appreciating CT and very much did mention skin colour, where’s the comprehension issue?

I agree with him regarding the cult like behaviour surrounding Captain Tom, as for the the white British nationalist comment. I think it comes from the fact he was always seen posing with his war medals. Even in the awful Barbados photos he has the shirt and medals on and a pair of shorts, he looked very uncomfortable tbh and I wonder whose idea it was. Everyone’s grandparents/ parents were involved in the war effort and I’ve never seen the medals paraded about like that. There is a negative association with the British Army to do with colonisation and racism over the centuries.

@Xenia

Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's

This sums it up perfectly

@stairway

I think it comes from the fact he was always seen posing with his war medals

It seems that some will pick on anything to belittle this gentleman's efforts.

Now there's a problem with medals, right

He has risked his life for the sake of the country. Can any of the CT bashers on this thread say they have done the same? Of course not! But they are still happy to benefit from his efforts! Ridiculous comment!

Truly delicious I’m just giving a reason behind his comments. The wearing of the medals had an effect on the British public, a purposeful effect that lead an ordinary man to achieve cult like celebrity status. However it made this particular cleric think of white British nationalism instead.

I think Clergy should definitely be vocal about politics, as Jesus if he existed was actually rumoured to be very political in fact positively socialist in his outlook!!

For example in Nazi Germany the clergy often got in serious trouble speaking out against the Nazis, have you heard of Pastor Martin Niemoller & his poem 'First they came for... '
Also there was a bishop who spoke out against the euthanasia of the disabled, the only reason he wasn't arrested is that he was too high up in the church.

Those are just historical examples but the fact is that like it or not religion & politics are closely entwined.

Regarding Captain Tom, I feel on the whole that he's been a good role model during the pandemic, as has Marcus Rashford for example, and it is very sad that he's died although he's had a good life.

But it's certainly true that the far right fascist groups on Facebook & other social media use images of CT, the Poppy & soldiers to promote their cause & it disgusts me.

Especially when those who fought on the Allied side in ww2 like CT were fighting AGAINST fascism!!
I keep seeing photos of 'patriots' wrapped in the Union Jack or England flag wearing a Poppy & giving the Sieg Heil... how offensive are they.

There is a negative association with the British Army to do with colonisation and racism over the centuries. Right now I'm grateful to them for their brilliant efforts in helping to deliver the vaccine to people all over the country.

@derxa

Right now I'm grateful to them for their brilliant efforts in helping to deliver the vaccine to people all over the country

I agree. We should be grateful for their efforts and not insist on giving them bad press

@MonkeyNotOrgangrinder

I don't disagree with him. Hopefully he will manage to keep his job and the church leadership won't bow to the pressure they'll now be under to get rid of him. I'm not religious in any way but people should be able to express an opinion. If you disagree, say so politely instead of vilifying someone

I disagree, look what happened to David Starkey when he cocked up last year and in an interview said: “Slavery was not genocide otherwise there wouldn’t be so many damn blacks in Africa or Britain, would there? An awful lot of them survived,”. He lost his academic positions, his publishing deals and his reputation.

P.S. He also apologised after the event, but as a guy said on the radio the other day: if someone drops their trousers in the pub, then pulls them back up again, they are still the guy who dropped his trousers in the pub.

I see Jarel's book: "Black, Gay, British, Christian, Queer: Church and The Famine of Grace" is set to be released in July....

www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Gay-British-Christian-Queer/dp/0334060486/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=black+christian+queer&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1612801249&sr=8-1

One rule for one.....?

@stairway

I agree with him regarding the cult like behaviour surrounding Captain Tom, as for the the white British nationalist comment. I think it comes from the fact he was always seen posing with his war medals. Even in the awful Barbados photos he has the shirt and medals on and a pair of shorts, he looked very uncomfortable tbh and I wonder whose idea it was. Everyone’s grandparents/ parents were involved in the war effort and I’ve never seen the medals paraded about like that. There is a negative association with the British Army to do with colonisation and racism over the centuries.

Indeed.

Whos idea was it to pose with the medals I wonder