Captain Sir Tom Moore: Cleric's apology for tweet condemning nationwide clap 'does not undo hurt'

[trulydelicious]

news.sky.com/story/captain-sir-tom-moore-apology-for-tweet-condemning-clap-for-captain-tom-does-not-undo-hurt-12208212

It's worrying how some can harbour so much hate and still be allowed to hold a position in the Church (and fuel division through Twitter)

@HmmSureJan

As we say in my house, “anything before the ‘but’ doesn’t count”.

Yes it's a amusing little phrase to use occasionally but a tedious hurdle to manoeuvre around when people use it to dismiss a nuanced argument where you're trying to explain why you see more than one side of an argument.

Fair point. I don’t believe the poster I was referring to was making a nuanced argument though. The amount of times I’ve heard

“I don’t have anything against gay people, but...”

“I don’t dislike people from insert particular country but...”

It’s nearly always used before something unpleasant in a failed attempt to sound less offensive.

@JanewaysBun I don't know anyone called Jarel who has a dog, my FB friend has 2 cats

Oh sorry I get it - Jarel is the vicar who made the tweet!
And I thought you meant you knew my FB friend!

Doh! Sorry just been asleep after hard shift.

@JanetheObscure

If only he had made his argument more fully and cogently

I fundamentally think that clergymen should stay out of politics. And if they want to get into politics they should do it properly and change jobs.

[quote trulydelicious]@JanetheObscure

If only he had made his argument more fully and cogently

I fundamentally think that clergymen should stay out of politics. And if they want to get into politics they should do it properly and change jobs.[/quote]
But religion is politics. Particularly in the case of the early Christian church which was all about the 'affairs of the cities'.

Sticking to comment from the pulpit on Sundays tends to be the best course for vicars and not going on twitter etc. The system was set up wisely - you have all week to write your spiel and think about it and take advice from your superiors if needs be and only then speak it forth....

I agree @Xenia

@Xenia

Sticking to comment from the pulpit on Sundays tends to be the best course for vicars and not going on twitter etc. The system was set up wisely - you have all week to write your spiel and think about it and take advice from your superiors if needs be and only then speak it forth....

Well said. Perhaps clergymen and women should adopt the old medical oath 'Primum non nocere'

Equally one might adopt the wisdom of Aristotle, believing in the role that politics and the political community must play in bringing about virtuous life in the citizenry.

I think a more appropriate phrase for what you're suggesting is 'Quieta non movere et mota quietare' - or what is usually expressed in English as 'Don't rock the boat'.

@trulydelicious

And of course people are going to take offence when they see the squadrons of woke activists forcing white people to publicly apologise for having been born almost (the 'taking the knee' bollocks particularly embarrassing). What do you expect?

So taking the knee is bollocks, but clapping is ok?

@Mookie81

So taking the knee is bollocks, but clapping is ok

Genuflexion has traditionally been used to revere someone who is perceived as superior or to imply servitude. That's why I think it's a gesture that is inappropriate in almost every instance.

Clapping generally shows appreciation or approval. There's no stigma attached to it in my view.

But, above all, whatever people feel like doing, it should never be out of coercion or fear.

I never want to censor anyone but the limited words on twitter and risks and the number of good people who have come unstuck on it certainly confirms my view that "if in doubt say now't".

It is a bit like in many businesses - you are like to annoy half your customers if you tell them how you vote, your religion, your Brexit or remainer views or lockdown views so best not to let them know. I am not to keen on judges giving talks either as in a sense they are The Office that they fulfil, a neutral body of in a sense one person and in the old days we did not even have photos of them to preserve anonymity, protect the reputation of the office, stop attacks on them. Now they can express views (other than just in their court judgments where they only interpret the law) with care and do and I think it is a bad thing.

@JaimeLeeCurtains

But religion is politics

Yes, I know some religious leaders of most faiths do intervene in politics.

But I think their role is to preach about God, moral 'commandments' and spirituality (broadly) - all good stuff in my view

When a clergyman starts criticising X or Y government and tries to influence how parishioners vote, they are overstepping the mark and effectively hijacking an institution to force their personal ideas/agendas on others.

Bear in mind that some people believe that God actually speaks through clergymen (as if they were a medium) - they can exert a massive amount of power on those who follow them.

I especially agree with your last post, trulydelicious, and wish you'd met the local United Reformed guy - he'd give Marx a run for his money, and once dedicated an entire "sermon" to instructing his congregation on which newspapers they should be reading

Afterwards I did question whether he thought a wide range of reading might not be a better approach, but of course it was like talking to a wall

Worth mentioning that he's white though, so presumably it's safe to criticise ...

Rich white man walks around garden. Becomes legend.

@WagnerTheWehrWolf

The Captain Tom delirium is so out of control. Millions of people need a sedative. Or maybe a nice walk around their back garden to calm them down.

Precisely. Am I missing something? What remarkable thing did he do?

What remarkable thing did he do? Raised a lot of money for the NHS. More than I and most others have raised for the NHS anyway even if you include our hundreds of thousands of tax....

Shouldn't the nation be ashamed that he had to???

Which religious groups in the Uk believe that God speaks through clergymen as if they were mediums?

@PusheenLove 😂😂 you absolute idiot

No, not ashamed. Healthcare is a bottomless pit. Never even if 100% of the nation's money and most of its workforce went on the NHS would the need be satisfied. Since inception the NHS has been about compromise and triage and priorities.

@Purplerayhan

Shouldn't the nation be ashamed that he had to

Why should we be ashamed? Because he wanted to do a good deed and top up whatever budget is already available?

@PusheenLove

Rich white man walks around garden

What do you mean by 'rich'? He raised £33M and donated it to the NHS. His father was a builder and his mother was a teacher and then got on in life most likely through his efforts.

Have you been reading fake news?

And again, why the racism against white people?

@nursejekyll

Which religious groups in the UK believe that God speaks through clergymen as if they were mediums

What I'm trying to say is that some people take what clergymen say very seriously (as if it was God speaking and have difficulty making a distinction).

Another problem besides political influence is, imagine a white parishioner who's going through a rough patch and is looking for solace in religion. If he/she encountered a character like this clergyman spouting hate against 'the white', it wouldn't be unreasonable to think 'well, I'm not welcome here'. And that would push this person towards sects, cults or groups who are potentially dangerous. Or it could put them off religion altogether and they could start idolising instagrammers, tv personalities, or whoever - equally dangerous, IMO