Captain Sir Tom Moore: Cleric's apology for tweet condemning nationwide clap 'does not undo hurt'

[trulydelicious]

news.sky.com/story/captain-sir-tom-moore-apology-for-tweet-condemning-clap-for-captain-tom-does-not-undo-hurt-12208212

It's worrying how some can harbour so much hate and still be allowed to hold a position in the Church (and fuel division through Twitter)

@HmmSureJan

But you feel coerced into it and don't like seeing your public/authority figures being coerced into it

Exactly. What if you fear losing your job because you don't want to take the knee? How is this acceptable?

It's time this 'taking the knee' bollocks is stopped

@tehmina23 no I know Jarel (not particularly well but from something I used to attend) he always seemed fairly quiet and talked about his dog

@Tehmina23

I gave up on saying anything in the end. FB friend wouldn't get it, his MH is fragile & he'd just shut down

How about...he doesn't agree with what you are saying? Have you thought of that as a possibility?

Hopefully he will read them & learn

Why do people think that those that don't agree with them:
.are asleep and should 'wake up'
.in time they will learn
.their way of thinking will evolve at some point

No...they have a brain, have made up their own mind and will never agree with you. Accept it

The use of an elderly man and his dignity for propaganda purposes is probably the most disgusting part of this whole story. The fact that some gullible and dim witted people do what their television tells them to do is a damning indictment of the general intelligence of the average UK citizen.

When I say it matters not about colour - I mean it doesn’t matter what colour you are - you can still be hateful

Don't worry, I know what you meant and believe you're right

Which is why some of us are able to utterly condemn both the flithy abuse Jarel's said to have received and his orginal remarks

... a FB friend of mine says
Well that says everything you need to know about that post.

[quote trulydelicious]@Siepie

who have driven Jarel off of social media with racist and homophobic abuse

He should absolutely be kept away from social media, the man is dangerous (and should be kept away from the Church unless he stops hate speech)[/quote]
Should the people abusing him also be kept away from social media and the church?

@Siepie

Should the people abusing him also be kept away from social media and the church

Are they clergymen too?

Not saying it’s right, but maybe now he understands how unpleasant it is when someone is racist towards you and he won’t be racist towards others in future.

That is a staggering level of ignorance @Glenchase

Do you genuinely think that as a black man he is only just realising now how upsetting it is when people are racist? Do you not think that there might be a tiny chance that he had experienced racism before? Or that someone he loves has?

As we say in my house, “anything before the ‘but’ doesn’t count”.

Im not sure if you can ban people from attending Church... but twitter and facebook can ban people. Ive only read a couple of the tweets he has recieved but they seem like the exact things people should get banned from.

Many jobs also have social media policies for things like this, so hopefully some of them will face repercussions.

[quote trulydelicious]@Siepie

Should the people abusing him also be kept away from social media and the church

Are they clergymen too?[/quote]
The OPs views on racism are clear when she refuses to condemn racist remarks aimed at a black man.

Karma being racist is being racist.

No saying what youre told too, is not racist. No one single one of us have condemned the Jim Crow laws on this thread, does that make us all racists who want to bring them back? No.

I have no idea if OP is racist or not, but maybe wait until people say something actually racist to accuse them.

@karmakameleon

when she refuses to condemn racist remarks

I condemn all racist remarks (including those made by the clergyman)

[quote trulydelicious]@karmakameleon

when she refuses to condemn racist remarks

I condemn all racist remarks (including those made by the clergyman)[/quote]
Really? You avoided answering the direct question above. But it’s good you’ve made your feelings clear now.

Karma I think you owe OP an apology.

Feel free to ignore me.

No I don’t. She refused to condemn racism against a black man when specifically asked. I noted it. She then said she condemned all racism but particularly noted that she condemns racism of white people by a black man. When someone tells you who they are, is best to believe them.

Karma so your interpretation of racism is someone not saying what you demand they say.

This is exactly why people are getting fucked off, and becoming apathetic to claims of racism.

No that’s not my interpretation of racism at all. I do however think that if someone is directly asked if racism is ok, and they avoid answering the question, there’s probably a reason for that.

As it transpires Karma your reasoning was entirely wrong, but hopefully you can learn from your mistake.

OP condemned all the racist remarks, made by both groups.

Have you done the same?

I think Karma is just trolling now for the sake of it.

@PheasantPlucker1
DedlyMedley by the same argument the tweet about taking the knee now doesnt actually say one shouldnt have done so during the BLM protests.
As you argued, if they meant that, theyd have said it.

I don't know what you're talking about in regards to taking a knee, so "by the same argument" doesn't apply here. I made an argument about one situation.
Based on your previous posts, I'm skeptical about whatever equivalence you're finding to invalidate my point.

@Glenchase
*Equally, it’s merely YOUR interpretation of his words that he did not say anything racist. And generally we listen to the people who DO find something offensive, not the people who don’t.

He said the word “is” which implies equivalence. Captain Tom = white nationalism. That is what he said.*

But that's categorically not what he said, which is my point. He said the cult of Captain Tom is the cult of white British nationalism. I assume his point was about the subtext of white and British exceptionalism.

It is no coincidence that genuine racist and nationalistic indoctrination often employs references historical militaristic glory and notions of "the good old days".
It's appealing for the same reasons that a PR company knew Captain Tom would be appealing.

That would not be the same as saying that people who support Captain Tom and his efforts are racist. He even applauds his work in the same tweet.

My (white) DS has always disliked not Sir Tom himself, but what he felt became a circus around him. I see it differently, but I respect his view. I strongly suspect that some people really wouldn't.

Jarel Robinson-Brown's problem is not that he is wholly wrong, but that Twitter was not the platform to express his argument, with no room for nuance. His tweet didn't distinguish between far-right nationalists (whose social media comments have also made very uncomfortable reading) and the vast majority of Sir Tom supporters, who simply applauded his effort, his fundraising and the way he lifted spirits.

I'm quite sure that J R-B can actually see the distinction. If only he had made his argument more fully and cogently.

As we say in my house, “anything before the ‘but’ doesn’t count”.

Yes it's a amusing little phrase to use occasionally but a tedious hurdle to manoeuvre around when people use it to dismiss a nuanced argument where you're trying to explain why you see more than one side of an argument.

As we say in my house, “anything before the ‘but’ doesn’t count”.
By the same accounts, anything you just pull out of your butt doesn't count either.

I'm quite sure that J R-B can actually see the distinction. If only he had made his argument more fully and cogently.

Perhaps, but unfortunately this is the world we are living in. Where a misspoken word or opinion which isn't utterly water tight and hasn't been examined minutely for chinks before being expressed is always taken in the worst faith possible and used to utterly excoriate and shame the speaker into submission. It happens to everyone now - often right here on MN - and it is not racism when it happens to a person of colour.