Captain Sir Tom Moore: Cleric's apology for tweet condemning nationwide clap 'does not undo hurt'

[trulydelicious]

news.sky.com/story/captain-sir-tom-moore-apology-for-tweet-condemning-clap-for-captain-tom-does-not-undo-hurt-12208212

It's worrying how some can harbour so much hate and still be allowed to hold a position in the Church (and fuel division through Twitter)

OMG I know him!!

But here are some examples outside of this thread (which no doubt people will hate)

www.dailylife.com.au/news-and-views/dl-opinion/eight-things-racists-say-to-try-and-convince-people-theyre-not-being-racist-20150731-giohbl.html

metro.co.uk/2020/03/27/word-woke-became-tool-silence-people-colour-12426214/

Jesus thats actually a very true and fair point.

I think the post by HmmSureJan after pretty much covers my response.

Racism is horrific, no excuses. But when its a constant accusation that some (and Im not accusing anyone here) use to win an argument it becomes meaningless.

The danger is people will not take actual racism seriously if they are constantly called racist for having a different opinion.

@HmmSureJan

And can you not see why that FB post is racist?

No I don't believe it is. Tell me why it is please?

"Now is the time to take a knee" implies that the BLM protests weren't the time to take a knee.

[quote JesusInTheCabbageVan]But here are some examples outside of this thread (which no doubt people will hate)

www.dailylife.com.au/news-and-views/dl-opinion/eight-things-racists-say-to-try-and-convince-people-theyre-not-being-racist-20150731-giohbl.html

metro.co.uk/2020/03/27/word-woke-became-tool-silence-people-colour-12426214/[/quote]
So no posts from this thread still then?

@PheasantPlucker1 Yes. I think the problem arises when one person genuinely sees racism and another doesn't. The person being accused will always be mortified and defensive, whilst the person doing the accusing gets increasingly frustrated.

And on that note, I am going to step away from the thread for a bit otherwise I just know I'm going to lose the rest of my Friday to arguing with people!

@Glenchase

The tweet did not say that people who clap are white nationalists In my opinion that’s exactly what it said.

I think that's more an indictment of your comprehension than of what he said, because he didn't day that white people who clap are racist. If that's what he meant, he could have used those words or direct synonyms. If you want to get offended at your interpretation of his words, rather than the definitions of what he said, that's on you.

Now is the time to take a knee" implies that the BLM protests weren't the time to take a knee.

Right. I thought that's what you meant. How about it if you don't think any time is a time to "take a knee" for any person, anywhere? But you feel coerced into it and don't like seeing your public/authority figures being coerced into it? How about you've had it forced into your consciousness as a new signal so when a cause you believe in emerges you decide ok well if this is a thing now, then this is when I would do it?

It may also imply that now (today) is the time to take a knee for Sir Tom.

It doesn’t actually say the knee shouldn’t have been taken before this.

A lot of the time the written word can be interpreted by the reader to suit what they believe.

But no. I don’t see that fb post as racist.

DedlyMedley by the same argument the tweet about taking the knee now doesnt actually say one shouldnt have done so during the BLM protests.
As you argued, if they meant that, theyd have said it.

That argument is BS. The meaning is implied but very clear in both statements.

@SheldonesqueIsUnwell

It may also imply that now (today) is the time to take a knee for Sir Tom.

It doesn’t actually say the knee shouldn’t have been taken before this.

A lot of the time the written word can be interpreted by the reader to suit what they believe.

But no. I don’t see that fb post as racist.

I think it also matters who is saying it. On my FB it’s the more Right wing contingent who believe “all lives matter” who are posting this I know exactly what they mean when they say NOW is the time to take a knee

My FB friend is actually technically less educated than me in critical analysis, politics & history, however he's an expert in things I know not much about like carpentry & one very clever unusual hobby.

@JanewaysBun are you saying you know my FB friend? I'm sure lots of ppl shared that meme.

It IS I'm sure meant in a way critical of BLM as I've seen this type of meme with soldiers on before, implying that they're more worthy of respect than Black people.

Sorry can't explain any further as although I do know my stuff I'm not good at articulating it unlike some of you MNers whose long posts I do find a bit hard to understand.
Sorry.

If you want to get offended at your interpretation of his words, rather than the definitions of what he said, that's on you
Equally, it’s merely YOUR interpretation of his words that he did not say anything racist. And generally we listen to the people who DO find something offensive, not the people who don’t.

He said the word “is” which implies equivalence. Captain Tom = white nationalism. That is what he said.

It's sufficient that I empathise with those who are being offended by his words (including Captain Tom)

You do know this came about because Captain Tom is dead? I don’t think dead people are known for getting offended.

I think that the tweet was poorly worded, but I do think that there is a nationalist undertone to some social media posts about Cpt Tom. I don’t mean that everyone who clapped is racist, but that the cause has been co-opted by some right wing or nationalist groups for their own purposes.

And I’d rather have a priest who speaks out when he perceives injustice, than one who supports any of the ‘Christians’ who have driven Jarel off of social media with racist and homophobic abuse.

He said the word “is” which implies equivalence. Captain Tom = white nationalism. That is what he said.

He said “the cult of Captain Tom”. Even if what he said was offensive, it wasn’t against the man himself.

My non white sisters joined in the clap, so are part of the group you think is ok to describe as "white nationalists". Can you explain why you call them that?

Save your breath, PheasantPlucker1; as so often, the inconvenient questions are rarely addressed and I'm only surprised it's not been suggested that you're inventing your non white sisters ... I believe the preferred sneer is "cool story"

And meanwhile, though a white cleric would be have rightly condemned for an equivalent remark, the mental gymnastics continue

He said “the cult of Captain Tom”
That’s even worse. The cult of Captain Tom = white nationalism. That’s referring to everyone who went out and clapped.

Puzzled I have been called a lying racist on here as it was apparently impossible for a white woman to have mixed race siblings.

It also used to really confuse drunk men in the pub.

Which is why I’m not on FB hopping

I would get the absolute hump with anyone (regardless who they were) spouting their hate in front of me.

It matters not about colour.

I just think creative wordsmithery is a bloody excuse to be hateful and then wriggle out of it if the reaction isn’t positive.

I’m ruddy tired of hate full stop and I’m tired of being accused of being something I’m not when I say so. I’m either racist or not proactive enough or am burying my head in the sand. I’m horrendously tired in the exclusivity in the name of inclusivity.

Hate is hate whoever says it - and however cleverly they might think they are saying it it is still hate and intolerance.

@JesusInTheCabbageVan

And can you not see why that FB post is racist

Why is it racist?

Some want to take the knee for Captain Tom

Some want to take the knee for BLM

And some don't want to take the knee for anything and mustn't be forced. It's abuse and harassment

Why do you keep trying to defend the reverend? Do you follow him on Twitter too?

And, by the way, a lot will be offended by your user name and will find it blasphemic. You'd better change it

@Glenchase

The cult of Captain Tom

Exactly, even calling it a 'cult' is offensive and demeaning

When I say it matters not about colour - I mean it doesn’t matter what colour you are - you can still be hateful.

I have been told my opinion didn’t matter on here because I wasn’t brown enough...

I often want to resurrect myself under that name but I won’t because the hate from some was astounding.

@Siepie

who have driven Jarel off of social media with racist and homophobic abuse

He should absolutely be kept away from social media, the man is dangerous (and should be kept away from the Church unless he stops hate speech)

And, by the way, a lot will be offended by your user name and will find it blasphemic. You'd better change it

I know I said I'm stepping away now, and I am, honest, but this has made my day

I have been called a lying racist on here as it was apparently impossible for a white woman to have mixed race siblings

Love the thing about the men in the pub (!!) but genuine apologies for not having seen that post; it was predictable of course, but I honestly missed it

I guess the thing for me is that no matter what colour we are we all get it wrong sometimes, and clearly the diocese feel the same because they've said an apology doesn't heal the hurt

That being so you'd think there could be a general acceptance that the cleric made a mistake, but no ... for some the idea that a black man could ever be in the wrong is anathema, so out come the gymnastics and the accusations of racism towards anyone who dares disagree. Shame, really