Captain Sir Tom Moore: Cleric's apology for tweet condemning nationwide clap 'does not undo hurt'

[trulydelicious]

news.sky.com/story/captain-sir-tom-moore-apology-for-tweet-condemning-clap-for-captain-tom-does-not-undo-hurt-12208212

It's worrying how some can harbour so much hate and still be allowed to hold a position in the Church (and fuel division through Twitter)

Like what? And his tweet wasn't hateful.

Making sweeping generalisations about race is pretty racist, Jesus

His tweet was tactless and ill timed, but not hateful. I find it far less offensive than the gloating and insidious racism on this thread.

Yes it is, but I don't agree that he's done that.

Feel free to report the racism for mumsnet to remove!

I havent seen nay, just lots of people attempting to accuse others of it.

The tweet did not say that people who clap are white nationalists
In my opinion that’s exactly what it said.

@PheasantPlucker1

Feel free to report the racism for mumsnet to remove!

I havent seen nay, just lots of people attempting to accuse others of it.

I really wish the thread would be taken down, as it's horrible.

All the racism is insidious, and it's a lot harder to prove that type of thing sadly. I'm sure I'm not the only person who has spotted it and finds it upsetting though.

@Glenchase

The tweet did not say that people who clap are white nationalists In my opinion that’s exactly what it said.

Obviously that's your opinion, but he very much didn't say that.

Can you highlight just one post you find racist?

Just one.

Ill wait.

The exact wording of the tweet...

"The cult of Captain Tom is a cult of White British Nationalism. I will offer prayers for the repose of his kind and generous soul, but I will not be joining the “National Clap”.

Exactly. He said it right there he won’t be joining the ‘National Clap’ as in his view it ‘White British Nationalism’. Therefore, people who clap are white British nationalists.

He needs the prayer more than Captain Tom.

@PheasantPlucker1

Can you highlight just one post you find racist?

Just one.

Ill wait.

What, so you can explain at length why it's not racist? Nah, I'm good. It's clearly something we're not going to agree on, so what's the point?

@PheasantPlucker1

The exact wording of the tweet...

"The cult of Captain Tom is a cult of White British Nationalism. I will offer prayers for the repose of his kind and generous soul, but I will not be joining the “National Clap”.

There are also Christian cults. Doesn't mean all Christians are cult members, though.

One of my less educated FB friends shared a post showing a soldier kneeling for Captain Tom saying 'Now is the Time to Take a Knee'...

I felt like saying wtf? Why can't we kneel for both?? Are they thus implying that it's somehow wrong to kneel for BLM??

I gave up on saying anything in the end. FB friend wouldn't get it, his MH is fragile & he'd just shut down. So what I do instead of getting in arguments is that I share posts created by BLM & by anti fascist groups.
Hopefully he will read them & learn.

I also feel that Tom himself would be appalled to find himself in quasi facist memes!! After all there was a ww2 against that kind of thing which he fought in...

@PheasantPlucker1

Can you highlight just one post you find racist?

Just one.

Ill wait.

They never do.

Im interested in what you find racist, Jesus.

The reason Im pissed off about the tweet is because my family found it racist, and explained why.

I dont think its ok to accuse people randomly of racism with no evidence, however.

One of my less educated FB friends shared a post showing a soldier kneeling for Captain Tom saying 'Now is the Time to Take a Knee'...

If he doesn't think exactly as you do he's "less educated"?

Obviously that's your opinion, but he very much didn't say that
Well that’s your opinion, because I think he did say that.

@DedlyMedally
This is my point about nuance. You're describing a white ethnostate, not white nationalism.

No. White nationalism is the movement to create a white etnostate. The only “nuance” in his tweet is that he thought some less educated people would not understand his meaning. Look it up. Even in the very first sentence of Wikipedia it says

“White nationalism is a type of nationalism or pan-nationalism which espouses the belief that white people are a race[1] and seeks to develop and maintain a white racial and national identity.[2][3][4] Many of its proponents identify with and are attached to the concept of a white nation, or a "white ethnostate".[5]”

@HmmSureJan

One of my less educated FB friends shared a post showing a soldier kneeling for Captain Tom saying 'Now is the Time to Take a Knee'...

If he doesn't think exactly as you do he's "less educated"?

And can you not see why that FB post is racist?

If his intention was to say "people who clap for Captain Tom are racist" he would have said that. It would have saved him a few characters.

Yeah right. No one is going to tweet something so blatantly offensive. He just thought he could out smart everyone. It’s in the subtext. White nationalists and white nationalism is by definition a racist ideology ergo anyone who says you follow a “cult” of “white British nationalism” is calling you a racist.

@PheasantPlucker1

Im interested in what you find racist, Jesus.

The reason Im pissed off about the tweet is because my family found it racist, and explained why.

I dont think its ok to accuse people randomly of racism with no evidence, however.

I do actually appreciate the fact that we're having a civil conversation about this despite the fact that we clearly disagree . Sadly doesn't happen much on MN....

The problem is that if I single out one or more posts which I perceive as racist, it will spark an angry pile-on and will ultimately be counter productive. Especially as it's such an emotive topic.

I do not believe this is racist discussion. I'm finding more and more that accusations of racism are thrown out very carelessly when what it really means is you don't agree with my analysis of this situation, you are criticising the actions of a person of colour which according to MY value and belief system is racist! The accusation is usually enough to stop the discussion stone dead and thus we never really reach any understanding of why the other person thinks as they do which also totally kills off any chance of moving forward and gradually changing societal attitudes increments.

"This thread is racist it should be deleted!" It's racist only by your belief system and belief in critical race theory tenets. Stop trying to prevent people from ever reaching any understanding because the result is firstly confusion then anger and resentment and if you're lucky, finally total apathy and unwillingness to engage in any discussion. But then I also think that many people throwing these unfounded accusations of vicious racism out don't actually want to have the discussion because they know they can't really prove them and want the accusation to be the final word, which it nearly always is.

And can you not see why that FB post is racist?

No I don't believe it is. Tell me why it is please?

I took ‘the cult of Captain Tom’ in the same way that people talk about Mrs Hinch’s ‘cult’ or any particularly hardcore ‘celebrity’ following. Not ‘everyone that likes and appreciates Captain Tom.’

Like it or not, there are cults/groups that will use Captain Tom as a figurehead for their white nationalist agenda. That’s who he was talking about and if you choose to misunderstand that, then you are part of the problem in my opinion. It is not ok to have some of the views you have, OP. It is not particularly woke to believe that Britain has a history to be ashamed of - our ancestors raped, pillaged, sold people, enslaved people, stole peoples homes and property, and then repeatedly marketed ourselves as savours and wonderful people. We weren’t. A lot of our historical deeds are abhorrent and we should be ashamed, in the same way that Germany has been made to be publicly ashamed of their contribution to the world wars. You don’t hear people discussing how GB actually were first to use concentration camps in the Boer war though so you?