Some restrictions likely next winter to protect unvaccinated?

[Kokeshi123]

www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/19062056.social-distancing-continue-next-spring-expert-warns-vaccines-will-not-stop-coronavirus-cases/
www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/19062056.social-distancing-continue-next-spring-expert-warns-vaccines-will-not-stop-coronavirus-cases/

The emphasis in these discussions by Dr Hunter suggests "some" restrictions next winter--most likely not a strict lockdown. The concern here is that we may continue to see some outbreaks among the unvaccinated. Just wondering how much appetite there is likely to be for this. I find it hard to muster much motivation about protecting those who have chosen to refuse the vaccine. On the other hand, we have to consider those who are not able to have the vaccine and may be made very ill from it.

Butt the myth between vaccines and autism has been debunked.

And even if those parents think that, it has no impact on the staff vaccine take up. It’s just buying into the madness if staff support this.

I expect restrictions such as; face coverings in medical settings and care homes to continue for some time. I think that’s reasonable and appropriate. I hope that’s the type of thing they’re discussing as opposed to more intense restrictions like lockdowns and tiers.

Yes we’ve been through or vaccines and that is the ratio of the final uptake. Pre jabs a lot more said no but eventually some changed their minds and got the jab.

I didn’t say that had a bearing on staff uptake. I told you that information to make it clear to you that not all businesses will be financially worse off for having unvaccinated staff. Our home would have some very fuming parents should they be told that staff had been sacked over non vaccinations.

Also, for those of you spouting off nonsense about the legalities of what can and can’t happen, most of you are wrong.

The current situation for care homes is that large homes are seeking legal advice about how to proceed with staff refusing covid jab,

As it stands there is no legal requirement.

Some homes have gone ahead and sent out threatening letters.

Some homes are saying that they can legally sack people as health and safety trumps employment law.

It is very likely that homes will employ new staff on new contracts that stipulate they need to be up to date on vaccinations. However for those currently employed, there is currently nothing in place to say they are breaking any laws or can be sacked.

I am very lucky that the home I work in backs is. But I highly doubt if it effected their profits they would. They’re doing it because the parents there is no pressure on them to get us vaccinated atm.

Butt the myth between vaccines and autism has been debunked.

Probably best you go and tell that to the parents that think differently, not me.

They could just terminate all contracts and re-employ of course.

Not very ethical.... but neither is being selfish and not having the vaccine.

And if the parents are unhappy, that’s their problem. They can always move their relative. It’s not really their place to express a preference for the staff or not.

But just to add: I think we all know that our futures in this sector will eventually be in jeopardy. It’s pretty obvious where this will all lead in the end. We will ride it out until then, but we will then have to seek different ways to earn a living. That’s something we are all prepared for.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

They could just terminate all contracts and re-employ of course.

Not very ethical.... but neither is being selfish and not having the vaccine.

It’s not ethical and not legal.

But it is if they were changing the terms and conditions to include a Covid vacine.

I’m not saying it’s right. But private companies can do what they want.

worksmart.org.uk/work-rights/pay-and-contracts/contract-changes/can-my-employer-change-my-contract-employment

They can change them with ‘consultation’ or union backing. Urge unions would back it to the hilt.

The best way of protecting those who can’t have the vaccines is for everyone else to have the vaccine.

@Moneyfornothingkerbsforfree

Well I’m pretty certain this thread was to discuss “protecting the in vaccinated” which I’ve now covered but now we are moving in the direction of herb immunity etc. Maybe we should shelf that discussion for when there is even a shred of evidence that the vaccines A. Work

1. Are proven to stop the spread.

Until then a feel that discussion is a total waste of my time.

@Moneyfornothingkerbsforfree there is of course already a lot of evidence that the vaccines work.

What evidence on top of that are you looking for?

@jabsinarms

Does anyone know the % of adults who are unable to get vaccinated for medical reasons? Just wondering.

But yes, I assume there will be restrictions in place for at least the next 18 months (with even more devastating consequences for the economy as a lot of businesses are not viable with SD) - I don't like the way Paul has said these would be to protect those who did not want to get vaccinated though- it's a terrible suggestion to put out there to the anti-vaxxers. Until children can be vaccinated there will be a lot of virus circulating.

@jabsinarms probably tiny. I think mostly to do with severe allergies eg danger of anaphylaxis

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

But some companies are insisting on staff being vaccinated. I swear there was a thread on here about it.

What about the eugenics of the people they look after or their relatives being infected by it. Is that ethical? They chose to do that said job, maybe having a vaccine would be an essential prerequisite? Like l said, the ethics are a minefield and need addressing at some point.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow I agree. I think the ethics are not that complex on this actually. If a surgeon operates on a patient it's assumed they have to wear PPE (not just with Covid, always). Otherwise they can't do it due to health and safety

Same for care home workers. They have to be vaccinated otherwise asymptotic transmission during a pandemic makes care home residents extremely vulnerable

Thanks for those links @ArseInTheCoOpWindow It’ll be interesting to see how this plays out and the implicit the care sector. Many (in my experience) care workers are BAME and in a poll I looked at the other day 72% of BAME people are either unsure or unwilling to take the vaccine.

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow

I would rather my children just got it as I honestly feel that is better than annual vaccines for a mutating virus. Couple that wit the fact we don’t know about women of child bearing age.

I actually have sympathy with care home workers who don’t want the vaccine. We don’t know the reasons behind that and shouldn’t force it. But equally I think if we offer adults a vaccine and they don’t take it then they take their chance

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow what about sympathy for the care home residents who are then made vulnerable to the virus and consequently can't see relatives?

Anti vaxxerers are unwittingly digging their own grave.

It’s only a matter of time before workplaces/shops/venues etc won’t admit anyone without a vaccine. Even if the government says people don’t have to have one, private companies will make their own decisions.

[quote Wyntersdiary]@Monty27 Well seen as having the vaccine doesn't stop you catching it or passing it on it doesn't matter really does it. Not having the vaccine at the moment only means if you catch it the symptoms may be worse for example your cough may last longer or be more severe.

A care worker having the vaccine does NOT make anyone Safer. Just as the Flu vaccine DOES NOT stop you getting the flu or passing it on it just makes it a milder version FOR YOU.[/quote]
Might be an idea to at least try and keep up with current developments if you are going to come on and spout with such certainty. It has been all over the news in recent days that there is growing evidence that the vaccines do work to reduce transmission.

“Anti vaxxerers are unwittingly digging their own grave”

Get a grip. You don’t have superior knowledge about the future you know!
We are aware of the possible outcomes.
Anti Vaxxers are anti vaxxers for health reasons.
I have a child so at some point I may have to buckle if the restrictions get ridiculous. You are insane if you want to live in a World like that though. Do you realise what you are saying in here?
That there will become a time where I can’t go into a shop and buy food because I don’t want to be injected with a substance I don’t want in my body!?
However my Mum is 72 and she would rather die than be forced to have the covid jab. I support her completely.
Papers saying today, there is an estimated 15% refusal rate.
Unless those numbers go down dramatically these matters will be battled over for years. In and out of courts/ protests etc.

@Moneyfornothingkerbsforfree

“Anti vaxxerers are unwittingly digging their own grave”

Get a grip. You don’t have superior knowledge about the future you know!
We are aware of the possible outcomes.
Anti Vaxxers are anti vaxxers for health reasons.
I have a child so at some point I may have to buckle if the restrictions get ridiculous. You are insane if you want to live in a World like that though. Do you realise what you are saying in here?
That there will become a time where I can’t go into a shop and buy food because I don’t want to be injected with a substance I don’t want in my body!?
However my Mum is 72 and she would rather die than be forced to have the covid jab. I support her completely.
Papers saying today, there is an estimated 15% refusal rate.
Unless those numbers go down dramatically these matters will be battled over for years. In and out of courts/ protests etc.

Absolutely! I know a lot of MNers would love the vaccine to be compulsory but it won’t be happening.

Get a grip?!

I’m only posting about how l perceive private companies will behave.

Tough luck if you don’t like it.

No ones going to force anyone to have a vaccine. But it will be about choices.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Get a grip?!

I’m only posting about how l perceive private companies will behave.

Tough luck if you don’t like it.

I really don’t think most private companies are going to be willing to take on the aggro from people and admin this will involve, but we’ll see.

@southeastdweller some private companies have more money than others...

Maybe, but what if their staff who can’t have the vaccine refuse to work with someone who won’t?

That will be an interesting argument...