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Some restrictions likely next winter to protect unvaccinated?

192 replies

Kokeshi123 · 04/02/2021 03:44

www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/19062056.social-distancing-continue-next-spring-expert-warns-vaccines-will-not-stop-coronavirus-cases/
www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/19062056.social-distancing-continue-next-spring-expert-warns-vaccines-will-not-stop-coronavirus-cases/

The emphasis in these discussions by Dr Hunter suggests "some" restrictions next winter--most likely not a strict lockdown. The concern here is that we may continue to see some outbreaks among the unvaccinated. Just wondering how much appetite there is likely to be for this. I find it hard to muster much motivation about protecting those who have chosen to refuse the vaccine. On the other hand, we have to consider those who are not able to have the vaccine and may be made very ill from it.

OP posts:
Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 04/02/2021 10:08

I would rather my children just got it as I honestly feel that is better than annual vaccines for a mutating virus. Couple that wit the fact we don’t know about women of child bearing age.

I actually have sympathy with care home workers who don’t want the vaccine. We don’t know the reasons behind that and shouldn’t force it. But equally I think if we offer adults a vaccine and they don’t take it then they take their chance

Moneyfornothingkerbsforfree · 04/02/2021 10:09

Today 10:02 ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Me too. And not being able to visit your relative in a care home you pay for because some arsehole won’t have a vaccine is just the cherry on the top!

No relative is going to stand for that!

But don’t you see!? This is a lie. I will guarantee you there are absolutely no people out there that have chosen not to have the jab but are then asking for protection. These articles are written to stir up hate and manipulate people’s views towards those who choose not to have the jab. This problem doesn’t exist!

mootymoo · 04/02/2021 10:11

@Kokeshi123

They haven't vaccinated my parents yet! Children are very low risk in general

frozendaisy · 04/02/2021 10:14

Next winter is a lifetime in Covid terms away.

Let's just wait and see.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 04/02/2021 10:17

I’m not talking about THEM (anti vaxxers) asking for protection. I give not a shiny shite about their protection If they don’t have a jab then that’s their choice. It’s the fact that their choice impacts the protection of people in the home or people visiting.

If l was paying for my relative in a home, I’d expect all carers to have the vaccine. If they didn’t I’d move them to a home that did.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 04/02/2021 10:19

And as 70% of people want the vaccine, that means 70% of relatives with parents in the home want their carers to have the vaccine.

The 30% of carers who don’t want the vaccine can go and work in a special anti vax OAP home. Where there will be no residents..,

TheKeatingFive · 04/02/2021 10:27

But don’t you see!? This is a lie

What’s a lie?

I will guarantee you there are absolutely no people out there that have chosen not to have the jab but are then asking for protection.

They may not realise they are, but they are.

If they get ill themselves, no doubt they’ll expect hospital care. If they pass it on to others who can’t be vaxxed, they’ll need hospital care. And so it continues.

There will be no patience for this at all, to be clear.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 04/02/2021 10:30

There will be no patience for this at all, to be clear.

Yup! Absolutely. No patience with it now tbh. It’s just extending the problem.

purplebagladylovesgin · 04/02/2021 10:31

Restrictions will depend largely on the immune response we see from the vaccines given. This is a positively predicted but technically unknown at the moment.

To put in restrictions to protect people who have actively decided against taking up the offer of a vaccine is ludicrous. To protect those who are unable to have the vaccine, yes. And this is so few it could be accommodated.

I think education is key, if people understood the difference between vaccines they maybe could make a better informed choice later on, when there is a choice.

This might encourage the non vaccinated to come forward. Some vaccines utilise relatively new technology and when talking to younger friends and family, it's these new methods that are putting them off.

Providing we can keep on top of our vaccination program and AZ can manufacture the booster we need come autumn, I think we are in a strong position. And restrictions will be minimal if at all.

We have the manufacturing capabilities (due to the foresight of key people) to produce an altered vaccine to address whatever strains are prevalent. It's all done here in the UK.

With the roll out we should see all our adults vaccinated by late summer with third dose (the boosters) by late autumn. These take ?three months to grow, harvest, and finish so they will want to leave it as late as they dare to get the strongest match to the mutations.

Our vaccine program won't stop, it carries on, there is no getting everyone vaccinated and that's the job done.

Very like flu jabs it will be needed every year. But as the world becomes vaccinated the prevalence of Corona virus will fall and the chance of mutations will also drop. This is why vaccinating the entire world is essential. The virus only mutates inside its host.

A later stage is getting the boosters into a form that the public can self administer, such as a nose spray.

kingat · 04/02/2021 10:32

I personally know a number of care home staff who wont "be part of medical experiment" and wont get the vaccine just because of these conspiracy theories.
I think it is fine for some these jobs to be offered conditionially on being vaccinated.
Many jobs are only available if you are healthy and noone has an issue with that, for example pilots.

Wyntersdiary · 04/02/2021 10:41

@Monty27 Well seen as having the vaccine doesn't stop you catching it or passing it on it doesn't matter really does it. Not having the vaccine at the moment only means if you catch it the symptoms may be worse for example your cough may last longer or be more severe.

A care worker having the vaccine does NOT make anyone Safer. Just as the Flu vaccine DOES NOT stop you getting the flu or passing it on it just makes it a milder version FOR YOU.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 04/02/2021 10:41

I think it is. The protection of workers is a key Health and Safety requirement. I think vaccines will be a requisite of most jobs.

Imagine the situation if you employed some anti vaxxer who then infected someone who couldn’t have the jab for medical reasons and that person died. You’d be culpable as an employer. What employer is going to lay themselves open to that?

It’s going to be interesting....

Dh is a manager. He had to discipline someone from travelling from a Tier 3 to Tier 2 so he could go drinking. He then put it on fb and came to work. So he was putting the rest of the workplace in danger. They were up in arms.

He was sent home for 14 days with a warning. That’s no different from an anti vaxxer deliberately not having the vaccine.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 04/02/2021 10:42

Wyntersdiary, did you miss the news yesterday? About the vaccine limiting transmission?🙄

TheKeatingFive · 04/02/2021 10:44

Well seen as having the vaccine doesn't stop you catching it or passing it on it doesn't matter really does it. Not having the vaccine at the moment only means if you catch it the symptoms may be worse for example your cough may last longer or be more severe.

The biggest issue here is pressure on the health service, so of course severity of disease matters.

Ontopofthesunset · 04/02/2021 10:45

I do wish people would stop repeating that the vaccine doesn't stop you getting it or passing it on. The message at the moment is that the trials have not determined those things as they didn't test asymptomatic people. It is hightly likely that the vaccine does both those things in at least some people. The latest Astra Zeneca data shows reduction in transmission.

C152 · 04/02/2021 10:46

But it's not about "protecting those who have refused the vaccine", is it? Lockdown was supposed to be about preventing the health service from being overrun with sick people there is no room for.

People who've had the vaccine can still get sick and can still pass the virus on to others. Anyone may get sick and need treatment whether or not they've had the vaccine. If the numbers of people getting severly ill and needing hospital treatment are managable, I don't see the need for further lockdowns.

IcedPurple · 04/02/2021 10:46

[quote Wyntersdiary]@Monty27 Well seen as having the vaccine doesn't stop you catching it or passing it on it doesn't matter really does it. Not having the vaccine at the moment only means if you catch it the symptoms may be worse for example your cough may last longer or be more severe.

A care worker having the vaccine does NOT make anyone Safer. Just as the Flu vaccine DOES NOT stop you getting the flu or passing it on it just makes it a milder version FOR YOU.[/quote]
I wish people would stop saying this. Did you not hear the news a few days ago that even one dose of the Oxford vaccine dramatically reduces transmission? Maybe keep up to date with the news and stop acting as though writing falsehoods in block capitals makes them any less false.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 04/02/2021 10:48

IcedPurple👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

smilingthroughgrittedteeth · 04/02/2021 10:53

@alexdgr8

i guess the new strains may be a problem. but i also heard something very concerning; that owners of care homes are going to keep visiting restrictions in place indefinitely even for residents who are fully vaccinated and their visitors fully vaccinated, in order to protect careworkers who refuse to be vaccinated. cart before horse, i think. it was a caller to sheila fogarty on lbc, on tuesday last, about 2pm. this person said she had inside information but could not reveal her source. she was getting up a campaign about it.
My mum is the manager of a care home and she absolutely wont be stopping families visiting relatives long term, she is absolutely furious with her staff who have recfused the vaccine and has told them outright that they have made the choice to be unprotected so tough luck basically, when life can safely return to normal she will be doing whats right for her residents (who are all vaccinated) and the staff will have to live with the consequences of their choice. The rest of the staff who are vaccinated are also pretty annoyed with their colleagues.
smilingthroughgrittedteeth · 04/02/2021 10:57

I havent broken a single rule, have barely left my house since march and will be having the vaccine as soon as its offered to me and there is no way im continuing to live with restrictions to protect people who choose not to have the vaccine

CoffeeandCroissant · 04/02/2021 11:18

Not having the vaccine at the moment only means if you catch it the symptoms may be worse for example your cough may last longer or be more severe.

No, that's not accurate, in all the trials the vaccines were highly effective in preventing severe disease, hospitalisation and death, not having the vaccine does not mean your "cough will last longer" , it means an increased risk of severe illness, hospitalisation or death, particularly for people vulnerable due to age of other reasons.

In any case the definition of efficacy in most of the trials was against symptomatic disease, so you are much more likely to have no symptoms, meaning no cough or other symptoms at all. It's also possible / likely that while asymptomatic people still pass on the disease, they do so to a lesser extent, therefore if most vaccinated people are only asymptomatic then there would be less transmission.

mobile.twitter.com/nataliexdean/status/1357011532106792960

Some restrictions likely next winter to protect unvaccinated?
ThelmaNotLouise · 04/02/2021 12:15

Harsh though it sounds, I won't accept another lockdown or schools being shut again to protect Covid/vaccine deniers and I don't know many others who would!

ThelmaNotLouise · 04/02/2021 12:16

Good for your mum, *allsmilingthroughgrittedteeth8! Their choice not to have it, they live (or not) with the consequences.

Monty27 · 04/02/2021 12:28

[quote Wyntersdiary]@Monty27 Well seen as having the vaccine doesn't stop you catching it or passing it on it doesn't matter really does it. Not having the vaccine at the moment only means if you catch it the symptoms may be worse for example your cough may last longer or be more severe.

A care worker having the vaccine does NOT make anyone Safer. Just as the Flu vaccine DOES NOT stop you getting the flu or passing it on it just makes it a milder version FOR YOU.[/quote]
@Wyntersdiary did I say that where? I'm a bit confused by your post or it's your post that's confused.
I'm saying if there's non-vaccinated staff in the carehome then it's they that are in danger. So we're protecting them by not visiting our loved ones. Even if we're vaccinated.
My sister has been vaccinated so protected. If I get the vaccine I'm protected. All good except some staff won't have been so we can't see her because they're not protected.
I'm not so stupid naive as to think vaccinated people can't infect other people FFS 🙄
My sister might have Alzheimer's but she should still be allowed to be loved in person.

Abracadabra12345 · 04/02/2021 12:45

@Moneyfornothingkerbsforfree

velemoncurd

I think care homes should publish 'numbers of staff not vaccinated' that would hit them in the pocket, they would sack those staff or not employ the refusers otherwise no income coming in!

Would that apply to the care home I work in?
We have a 30 strong team looking after young adults with autism.
Only 2/3 of staff have chosen to be vaccinated.
Problem With your theory is that half of the parents that we care for believe their children were vaccine injured.
Obviously you Mumsnetters will know more about that than them and their lives and what they’ve seen with their own eyes, because of the 15 mins of your life you have spent reading Government propaganda though.

Anyhow, until the Government were to make any changes in the law. 1/3 of the staff and half of the clients will stay unvaccinated.

Has the vaccine been offered to staff or is this still at discussion level? I know people are reported as changing their minds if actually offered it. I’m guessing that. the vaccine-wary are confident that the effects of the disease will be okay.

I have a young adult son with. Autism and a learning disability although that isn’t applicable to this debate of course.