Some restrictions likely next winter to protect unvaccinated?

[Kokeshi123]

www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/19062056.social-distancing-continue-next-spring-expert-warns-vaccines-will-not-stop-coronavirus-cases/
www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/19062056.social-distancing-continue-next-spring-expert-warns-vaccines-will-not-stop-coronavirus-cases/

The emphasis in these discussions by Dr Hunter suggests "some" restrictions next winter--most likely not a strict lockdown. The concern here is that we may continue to see some outbreaks among the unvaccinated. Just wondering how much appetite there is likely to be for this. I find it hard to muster much motivation about protecting those who have chosen to refuse the vaccine. On the other hand, we have to consider those who are not able to have the vaccine and may be made very ill from it.

Part of the worry is also self-isolation, will this have to continue say from the next school year? If it did you still have the potential of children missing lots of school if others in the class have it and they have to keep self-isolating! I think the government will have to look at this rule once more people are vaccinated.

I do worry about a society where people can loose employment based on their person medical decisions. Equally we haven’t made mmr compulsory for schools, quite frankly it seems we only care about the elderly in this sodding country.

Also, I’m pretty certain that I’ll be banned from here for daring to speak anything that’s anti vaccination but if there’s anyone half sane in here- this is for you....

Everyone i know that’s refused the vaccine (not those who can’t for medical reasons) does not want “protection”. That’s pretty obvious! So this whole debate is just a made up story to whip up more hysteria.

Refuse vaccine = not scared of Corona, want the World to get on with life as normal.

I’m pretty sure you’ll all come on here to say that we shouldn’t be treated by the nhs then etc etc.

I can’t speak for the others but if I could sign a bit of paper saying I will never have any treatment for Corona I’d sign it in a heartbeat!

@BigFatLiar

From the stats they showed last night the incidence of serious illness from covid in children is low. Perhaps they see the value of vaccination for them as being minimal.

The problem with not vaccinating them is not the danger of them catching covid but the danger of more variants as it freely circulated around children. A variant that is almost solely circulated around children and adapting to that can’t be a good thing.

They are currently testing several of the vaccines on 12-17yr olds. They are also developing a nasal vaccine so eventually I would imagine the plan will be to vaccinate children along with their flu vaccine. By next winter they will have vaccinated the adults and hopefully have enough data to start on the children and stop disrupting their education.

@Moneyfornothingkerbsforfree

Also, I’m pretty certain that I’ll be banned from here for daring to speak anything that’s anti vaccination but if there’s anyone half sane in here- this is for you....

Everyone i know that’s refused the vaccine (not those who can’t for medical reasons) does not want “protection”. That’s pretty obvious! So this whole debate is just a made up story to whip up more hysteria.

Refuse vaccine = not scared of Corona, want the World to get on with life as normal.

I’m pretty sure you’ll all come on here to say that we shouldn’t be treated by the nhs then etc etc.

I can’t speak for the others but if I could sign a bit of paper saying I will never have any treatment for Corona I’d sign it in a heartbeat!

Problem with that is it is not just about individuals, we need everyone that is able to vaccinate to protect everyone.

@Moneyfornothingkerbsforfree

Also, I’m pretty certain that I’ll be banned from here for daring to speak anything that’s anti vaccination but if there’s anyone half sane in here- this is for you....

Everyone i know that’s refused the vaccine (not those who can’t for medical reasons) does not want “protection”. That’s pretty obvious! So this whole debate is just a made up story to whip up more hysteria.

Refuse vaccine = not scared of Corona, want the World to get on with life as normal.

I’m pretty sure you’ll all come on here to say that we shouldn’t be treated by the nhs then etc etc.

I can’t speak for the others but if I could sign a bit of paper saying I will never have any treatment for Corona I’d sign it in a heartbeat!

If everyone refused the vaccine life would take a vast deal longer to return to normal, waiting for herd immunity if it ever came. So frankly you’re being counter productive and shooting yourself in the foot!

Refuse vaccine = not scared of Corona, want the World to get on with life as normal.

How does that stack up with 10s of thousands of CV deaths in nursing homes?

It won’t be possible to vaccinate all of our most vulnerable. They’ll be relying on those around them to prevent the spread.

alexdgr8
^i guess the new strains may be a problem.
but i also heard something very concerning; that owners of care homes are going to keep visiting restrictions in place indefinitely even for residents who are fully vaccinated and their visitors fully vaccinated, in order to protect careworkers who refuse to be vaccinated. cart before horse, i think.
it was a caller to sheila fogarty on lbc, on tuesday last, about 2pm. this person said she had inside information but could not reveal her source. she was getting up a campaign about it.^

This is appalling. If they refuse to be vaccinated, then surely they are a health and safety risk? Yeah, sure they can choose not to be, but should they allowed to carry on working there? Having/not having the vaccine is about choice. And with choice comes responsibilities.

There’s going to be a lot of ethical arguments. But they are employed to look after people. And looking after someone means caring about their H and S. No vaccine no job🤷🏼‍♀️

Well I’m pretty certain this thread was to discuss “protecting the in vaccinated” which I’ve now covered but now we are moving in the direction of herb immunity etc.
Maybe we should shelf that discussion for when there is even a shred of evidence that the vaccines
A. Work

1. Are proven to stop the spread.

Until then a feel that discussion is a total waste of my time.

Maybe we should shelf that discussion for when there is even a shred of evidence that the vaccines
A. Work

Initial data from Israel is very promising or did that pass you by?

Herb immunity😂

Immunity for all green tasty plants!👊🏼

There’s going to be a lot of ethical arguments. But they are employed to look after people. And looking after someone means caring about their H and S. No vaccine no job

Exactly

We have a large population and it's physically impossible to vaccinate everyone in a short time (especially as 2 doses are needed)

For boosters, it’s likely to be only a single shot. Like tetanus - the initial course is 5 doses in childhood, a booster in adolescence and then a booster every 10 years.

Everyone is only going to be 'offered' the vaccine, not 'given it by the autumn.

So its reasonable to assume most of us will be waiting until what, this time next year perhaps. Which by then, questions will be raised presumably about the need for a booster shot for the vulnerable and elderly. So I can see a very long extension of restrictions, if only a parred down version.

I saw something briefly that work is being carried out in communities and sectors where there is a lot of suspicion of the vaccine (BBC R4?). This seems to be different from just the anti-vax narrative, and more about suspicion of institutions and government policy that have never served them well.

And no, you cannot demand that they get the jab or get the sack. That borders on eugenics and is absolutely not acceptable.

I would assume a large problem with care home staff is that most are ethnic minorities and there is a big problem with takeup on vaccines in these communities partly due to religious and cultural reasons but it also appears to be a lack of education for some. Care homes will find themselves going out of business pretty fast if they keep restrictions indefinitely.

Does anyone know the % of adults who are unable to get vaccinated for medical reasons? Just wondering.

But yes, I assume there will be restrictions in place for at least the next 18 months (with even more devastating consequences for the economy as a lot of businesses are not viable with SD) - I don't like the way Paul has said these would be to protect those who did not want to get vaccinated though- it's a terrible suggestion to put out there to the anti-vaxxers. Until children can be vaccinated there will be a lot of virus circulating.

And no, you cannot demand that they get the jab or get the sack. That borders on eugenics and is absolutely not acceptable.

Why not? We already precedents of opportunities curtailed without a vaccine (travel) so I absolutely fail to see why a sector that’s been devastated by this disease can’t make it a condition of employment.

Even if it isn’t able to be enforced by law, it will become a norm of the sector as every care home will want to be able to promote their commitment to ‘100% vaccinated staff’ to potential applicants.

But some companies are insisting on staff being vaccinated. I swear there was a thread on here about it.

What about the eugenics of the people they look after or their relatives being infected by it. Is that ethical? They chose to do that said job, maybe having a vaccine would be an essential prerequisite? Like l said, the ethics are a minefield and need addressing at some point.

Some schools in other countries won’t let children in unless they’ve been vaccinated.

If my mum was in that home discussed earlier l’d go ballistic. Especially if l was paying for it, but not allowed to visit! People will just move their relatives out.

There’s some nuts replies on here! I’ve got no problem protecting the unvaccinated because they can’t be. I have a MASSIVE problem protecting those who just don’t fancy it.

This is a real problem. For those simply refusing the vaccine, I’m strongly inclined to think, tough. Your choice, you live with the consequences.
There will be so many though who just can’t have it and for their sake, I’m quite willing to follow whatever restrictions are in place (though I’m sorry, once all of our immediate family are fully vaccinated, I shall see our daughter and our grandchild, in our home or theirs, it’s the thought of that that has kept us going).

Key is, vaccinate as many as possible to provide protection to those who can’t have it.

Me too. And not being able to visit your relative in a care home you pay for because some arsehole won’t have a vaccine is just the cherry on the top!

No relative is going to stand for that!

ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Some schools in other countries won’t let children in unless they’ve been vaccinated”.

Do you mean for Covid or generally? If Covid, which vaccine has been approved for children elsewhere?

I mean general childhood vaccines. No vaccine no school.

Measles, mumps, rubella, polio that kind of thing.

Ah, ok.
I’m inclined to agree.