AZ - EU dispute 2

[marbellamarc]

Unsure if this will work!

Hand on heart would you all be happy with that? seriously? i'd bet my house again, they'd be howls of protest and demands

Very unhappy but I think the ire would be directed at the government & BoJo. Our lack of PPE wasn't blamed on other countries stopping exporting. We were slow.

I think they said something like "We have 25m ready for vials, 31m is our firm commitment because the yield never goes below 1.5m per weekly batch." That's the only way to make sense of the 25m discussed. The increases could be improved yield as batches come.ready, or UK stock, or a mix. The 3m ready a week early almost certainly has to be UK stock, possibly "traded" for getting our next Pfizer load so we can offer second jabs of the same.

@MRex

I think they said something like "We have 25m ready for vials, 31m is our firm commitment because the yield never goes below 1.5m per weekly batch." That's the only way to make sense of the 25m discussed. The increases could be improved yield as batches come.ready, or UK stock, or a mix. The 3m ready a week early almost certainly has to be UK stock, possibly "traded" for getting our next Pfizer load so we can offer second jabs of the same.

It feels like secret blackmail deal for sure. If we giving now before we vaccinated top 4 groups. Before top 9 groups Because we need 2nd dose phizer its a swop unequal one too.

9million az in return for either 2.8 or 3.8millon phizer i think of read was out next shipment due.

Radio 4 program on atm 'how to vaccinate the world' worth a listen

I hope there was some provision to make sure Southern Ireland get a percentage of the extra vaccines, otherwise I can see they will be last on the list.

@MRex

I think they said something like "We have 25m ready for vials, 31m is our firm commitment because the yield never goes below 1.5m per weekly batch." That's the only way to make sense of the 25m discussed. The increases could be improved yield as batches come.ready, or UK stock, or a mix. The 3m ready a week early almost certainly has to be UK stock, possibly "traded" for getting our next Pfizer load so we can offer second jabs of the same.

That would make sense.

I just wish they'd tried to do a deal across the table first explaining the issues rather than the way it was handled.

Well of course. I'm enjoying @Motorina's theory about extra doses here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4150613-EU-has-triggered-article-16-over-controls-on-vaccine-exports?msgid=104245660#104245660

I’ve just read the Sun article on this and did make me smile 😂 you were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off 😂

www.thesun.co.uk/news/13905684/eu-ursula-von-der-leyen-covid-vaccine-humiliation/amp/

A lot of people in favour giving Ireland some

Yes, on the understanding that it stays in Ireland and doesn't get siphoned off to the rest of the EU - you know, like they said would happen if any of "their" vaccines ended up in Northern Ireland.

I don't understand why there's support for giving ROI more vaccines. They hate the UK. Let the EU sort them out?

There is always a difference between being annoyed with a government and being annoyed with its citizens. Being from Liverpool, I know very few people who are not part Irish. The worst part of the EU spat is it caused grievances that are not really needed.

I read that the extra AZ vaccine was coming from India I think.

@CrotchBurn

I don't understand why there's support for giving ROI more vaccines. They hate the UK. Let the EU sort them out?

Because we share a land border. It makes sense.

From the purely practical point of view, we share a land border with the RoI. Assuming the vaccine prevents transmission, then a vaccination rollout in the RoI should reduce case-numbers across the whole island of Ireland. So there's a pragmatic reason.

The second pragmatic reason is that good relations with the RoI are in the UK's best interests, for all the obvious reasons. Sharing vaccines can only help with that.

There is also healthcare cooperation between NI and RoI. I posted this before, but it may be worth posting again.
"Covid-19: Critical cases from NI could put pressure on services in Republic" www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-critical-cases-from-ni-could-put-pressure-on-services-in-republic-1.4391125?mode=amp
a spokesman for the department said that “should either jurisdiction require support this will be provided where possible”, noting that there was “longstanding co-operation between respective authorities and health services in Northern Ireland and in the Republic of Ireland.”

They both deserve the help due to shared healthcare risks, and we have an interest in them being vaccinated. They are our nearest neighbours and trading partners, only a tiny minority of Irish actually hate the UK.

I thought that R4's "How to vaccinate the world" today was both enlightening and pretty fair on the question of vaccine nationalisms.

CrotchBurn Mon 01-Feb-21 18:28:56
I don't understand why there's support for giving ROI more vaccines. They hate the UK. Let the EU sort them out?

Because they share a border with the UK, and people either side cross back and forth fairly frequently, it's in all our best interests that the whole island of Ireland is vaccinated promptly.

Because there are a lot of Irish nationals living and working in the UK with family back in Ireland who they would no doubt like to see vaccinated sooner rather than later.

But it's moot, If the Republic of Ireland wants to go at EU pace rather than UK pace that's up to them. And even if they didn't, the EU might not let them team up with the UK.

@MuddlingMackem

CrotchBurn Mon 01-Feb-21 18:28:56 I don't understand why there's support for giving ROI more vaccines. They hate the UK. Let the EU sort them out?

Because they share a border with the UK, and people either side cross back and forth fairly frequently, it's in all our best interests that the whole island of Ireland is vaccinated promptly.

Because there are a lot of Irish nationals living and working in the UK with family back in Ireland who they would no doubt like to see vaccinated sooner rather than later.

But it's moot, If the Republic of Ireland wants to go at EU pace rather than UK pace that's up to them. And even if they didn't, the EU might not let them team up with the UK.

They couldn't stop them driving over the border to get their jabs though. Because land border and peace is important and they help no with ambulances it makes sense.

I think next few weeks eu lie low.
Hopefully az will manage the 40k they promised by end March.
Its if phizer and moderna under perform as I worry as then they might stop exports despite giving Boris their word.
They still passed this authorisation bill that runs until March.

@3asAbird, I wouldn't begrudge anyone who did travel north of the border to get a jab.

In fact, I would like it to be policy for anyone from ROI who works in Northern Ireland to be invited for a jab. This would protect their British colleagues, or patients / pupils if they happen to work in healthcare or education.

Oh Motorina I like that extra dose per vial theory!

I just assumed that the scientists had sorted the teething problems.

I'm not convinced that the UK are supplying doses to the EU. I think the government has a plan and they are sticking to it.

I rather suspect the media won't untangle "money actually handed over" and "promised to pay". Particularly as, until this week, the details of the deal weren't in the public domain.

I reckon all the details of this are in the redacted part of the EU-AZ contract because costs etc. would be considered to be commercially sensitive.

I am not a scientist, nor a politician or lawyer.

My hope, and I’m aware it’s a “Pollyanna” kind of hope is that AZ have been fairly quiet, save for the article last week, because they are confident in their contracts.

At the end of the day, they signed up with Oxford knowing full well that this was a long-term, not for profit basis. I’m not naive enough to think it’s 109% altruistic - ie flipping good PR once we finally turn things around.

To me, the fact that they haven’t come back fighting feels quite telling. They are comfortable with the terms of the two contacts in question. They have not said they’re not delivering full-stop, and am assuming they feel confident that orders will be met once glitches are ironed out.

Rather than wasting time and effort on trying to counter some of the rhetoric from the EU, they are carrying on doing what they’ve been doing for the last 10 months. Which is trying to upscale a vaccine production line across multiple sites with the eventual aim of producing as much as possible, at cost, for as many people as possible. I’d far rather they carry on doing that than waste time trying to fight back against the EC accusations.

I am not one to normally stand up for “big pharma”. But on this occasion, I’m trying to be objective. Oxford were very clear from the outset re not-for-profit. AZ had to agree to this to upscale. Upscaling to such huge numbers, in a very sort timeframe is always going to be difficult. There will be delays, but they will be worked through as soon as possible (we had delays advised end of last year).

I am a bit gobsmacked at the EC not even being able to fully redact a contract online, but think that’s an entirely different thread!

I don't know why anyone is surprised at how the Commission have reacted, in particular Von Der Leyen, at having been caught out in their ineptitude. She is. Ow trying to blame the Trade Commissioner. She pushed through the Article 16 bit by all accounts. If she couldn't run the German MoD, then how can she possibly run the EU?

Not impressed if they are shipping vaccine to Europe from India! They'd need a good explanation for that.

@picklemewalnuts

Not impressed if they are shipping vaccine to Europe from India! They'd need a good explanation for that.

Has that been confirmed where they magic 9mllion extra from? Felt sure it was uk factories so she wouldn't keep phizer hostage.

Can someone explain phizer did eu insist 6vials get extra for their money but 6th one difficult extract and wasted so been pointless waste time.