AZ - EU dispute 2

[marbellamarc]

Unsure if this will work!

Hand on heart would you all be happy with that? seriously? i'd bet my house again, they'd be howls of protest and demands

Very unhappy but I think the ire would be directed at the government & BoJo. Our lack of PPE wasn't blamed on other countries stopping exporting. We were slow.

Plausible theory that all the sound and fury out of the EU is not just about deflection from their delays but also to counter vaccine hesitancy by adding "scarcity value".

Also helps them maintain restrictions in the face of opposition if they can claim it is all our fault. The UK has the opposite issue of preventing pressure to release restrictions too early because we are relatively far ahead in the vaccine race.

Increasingly persuaded we are moving to an annual booster vaccine and plausible that EU is making a very bad fist of trying to muscle in to make sure it keeps a finger in every pie as combinations and permutations emerge.

[quote Baileysforchristmas]And now France and Germany taking legal action against AZ, a vaccine they think is mediocre.

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/31/france-germany-threaten-covid-astrazeneca-vaccine-shortageeu-uk[/quote]
Interesting

Well I suppose we’ll find out who’s in the right.

Davis Allen green has posted his view on the contract

davidallengreen.com/

He has a nice way with words. Spoiler alert: "What this now-published agreement tells us, even more than before, is that AstraZeneca may have been wronged in the political row with the European Commission."

It seem also to shows that the contract is worded for interpretation and the dispute is with AZ AB Europe, based in Sweden and the EU. So even less to do with the UK.

Interesting to see the text of invoking article 16 as well. That was very clearly included with highly deliberate effort and approved. I'd thought it was from reactions and statements, but good to see the detail confirmed.

@BigWoollyJumpers

www.vmicuk.com

For those who haven't seen this on other threads.

Another "not for profit" vaccination research and manufacturing site. We are indeed, very good at this.

Agree. For all the mistakes our government have the one thing torys are good at is responding to market need. They believe that's how you make wealth.

Boulshired thanks for posting that. Very entertaining if equivocating on legalise is your thing (it is mine ).

[quote picklemewalnuts]I found this interesting. I hope the links work- I'm never sure with Apple.

apple.news/AReuXV1zPT5eBCuDB2TNueg[/quote]
That is a really interesting article pickle. Shows that Hancock deserves a lot more credit than he is given. Without him insisting on the tie up with Astra Zeneca we would be in a much worse position plus his general optimism pushing supply chains etc through. I will be a defender of his now
Spookily I watched contagion the other day and yes vaccines were allocated by a lottery using birthdays! I prefer our age based system

So much that is interesting in Contagion ;

When I last watched it I thought they had good PPE. Was a while back when we were talking about that

I also thought today that it was a good decision to make JCVI visible and accountable. On radio debate on who next eg police etc to politicians - can more easily be answered by the JCVI will decide

Sasha I've always been a defender of Matt Hancock. I've always felt he's genuine and when you listen to him it's clear he has always been for health. People forget some the decisions he'd make for health aren't made when he'd like because PM gets final say.

Although you have to give Boris credit for vaccine roll out. In fact I'm beginning to think he thought we'd have this last summer and he's always seen it as our way out and perhaps been slow as always based his hopes on vaccine.

Yes I’ve always had a soft spot for him and thought he was doing his best but wasn’t completely confident in his competency. I’ve changed my view on him now!

Interestingly in contagion the vaccine is a nasal spray and seemed to be just given out to people to do themselves. And instant protection too
Which as we are all vaccine and immunity experts now, we all know is Completely unrealistic
But I liked all the R number chat, I understood that and I like the sceptic jude law walking round with a bubble on his head. Quite a lot right!

@sashagabadon - Imperial were working on exactly that delivery mechanism.

Ha Sasha I can never remember the ending nor what the guy who gives the vaccine to janitor does about his own immunity.

I like lots of it and at least our nurses didn’t strike and we didn’t get to rubbish on the streets. Oh and recorded message for 999

But they didn’t seem to impose lockdown and tell people to stay at home.

Talk on radio on need to develop vaccine without needing team of HCP for future deployment. A good way to go for speed

@MarshaBradyo

Ha Sasha I can never remember the ending nor what the guy who gives the vaccine to janitor does about his own immunity.

I like lots of it and at least our nurses didn’t strike and we didn’t get to rubbish on the streets. Oh and recorded message for 999

But they didn’t seem to impose lockdown and tell people to stay at home.

Yes so much rubbish in the streets in the movie and within about a day! Binmen obviously not considered keyworkers Social distancing was mentioned but no one seemed to do it and there certainly wasn’t 2 meter stickers all over the floor and a distinct lack of one way systems in place Society did seem to disintegrate more than I am pleased to say happened in real life!

I wasn't keen on Matt Hancock before, always thought he seemed a bit smarmy, bit of a David Cameron mark 2, and was pleased he didn't become leader. I like him now though and it does sound like he's made some very sensible decisions.

It's worth remembering the PPE issues. France took our pre-ordered masks, Germany banned even PPE to Italy. We held government accountable for the gaps, but different decisions could have been taken by the EU that would have made some difference to our death rates. If that helped shape our vaccine strategy and it leads to an minor delay for EU countries then that just seems to be a natural outcome. (Not as much difference as keeping rolling stock in multiple warehouses though, which should always be the future plan. The Contagion type preferably .)

Yes he learnt from ppe “nationalism” realised it would apply on steroids for the vaccines and set up the vaccine task force.
That is good decision making and to think at the time piers Morgan was being really awful to him. If I was piers I would apologise.

Good points there. I think we’ve learnt a lot re pandemics now

Also listening to Kate Bingham she did an excellent job. Being nimble, offering the registry and manufacturing to secure numbers. They managed to choose the working ones too which was incredible.

KB got lambasted in press and on here re PR spend and apparently it was to set up the registry which helped us get supply of Novavax. I’m not sure why that wasn’t talked about at time. Maybe it was held under radar as a strategy

Yes Kate Bingham deserves apologies too from several media commentators.
And apparently she did not take a salary ( presumably she is already wealthy but still)

Kate Bingham is my new hero, amazing woman, there was so much negative press about her, she just kept quiet, got on with the job and delivered

@sashagabadon

Yes he learnt from ppe “nationalism” realised it would apply on steroids for the vaccines and set up the vaccine task force. That is good decision making and to think at the time piers Morgan was being really awful to him. If I was piers I would apologise.

Piers a Morgan thinks he's the nations "hold the government to account" guru.

In 3 years time and we have the next GE and everyone is looking at effects of a brexit and future and if we've learnt form this and making properties decisions.

he'll still be getting people to chase Boris around the country to "answer his very important questions"

I don't agree with everything government have done, I'm certainly no Tory voter (I'm actually centric so go for best of the worst ), I do think government should admit their mistakes etc etc and I also think they've made some really good decisions.

But I cannot respect someone who shouts about boarders daily and left a country 2 days early to avoid quarantine and flew to Antigua at Christmas whilst telling the nation the government was practically murdering the nation allowing mixing.

Ds and I watched a pandemic film lockdown 1. Totally by accident p. Cant remember if it was contagion but it was about pig, a bat and a restaurant.

@sashagabadon

Yes Kate Bingham deserves apologies too from several media commentators. And apparently she did not take a salary ( presumably she is already wealthy but still)

That's true. She took no salary. And when asked if she wishes she had agreed to stay on she said she'd agreed 6 months only as has her own interest.

Baileysforchristmas

And now France and Germany taking legal action against AZ, a vaccine they think is mediocre.

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/31/france-germany-threaten-covid-astrazeneca-vaccine-shortageeu-uk

What will that achieve? If the supplies aren't there, they aren't there. And a French or German court can't order AZ to breach a contract signed in the UK to fill any shortfall. Or if they try it, they could find that export bans can work both ways. Though I think our govt wouldn't want to get involved unless it became absolutely necessary.