AZ - EU dispute 2

[marbellamarc]

Unsure if this will work!

Hand on heart would you all be happy with that? seriously? i'd bet my house again, they'd be howls of protest and demands

Very unhappy but I think the ire would be directed at the government & BoJo. Our lack of PPE wasn't blamed on other countries stopping exporting. We were slow.

[quote PutYourBackIntoit]I've been cross with the BBC coverage on this whole debacle, and have been looking elsewhere for more balanced journalism. Cant believe I think I found it in RT! The headline will be divisive but I think it's true nevertheless.

www.rt.com/op-ed/513811-uk-eu-vaccine-failure-brexit/[/quote]
That article perfectly sums up the reason I voted leave.

@3asAbird
IIRC the Sanofi vaccine didn’t work out and the plant was being set up to manufacture Pfizer.

I've heard several people suggest that the EU hasn't actually paid up yet. How is that supposed to work?

According to the freely visible part of the contract, the EU was obliged to pay two thirds of the initial funding (336 million €) within 5 days of concluding the contract (and the rest at some later date I can't see). All the information I can find says that it was actually all paid up immediately, for example www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-vaccine-price/eu-pays-336-mln-euros-to-secure-astrazenecas-potential-covid-19-vaccine-idUSKBN25N25X?rpc=401&
Surely AZ would've protested in September if they hadn't received that money?

I rather suspect the media won't untangle "money actually handed over" and "promised to pay". Particularly as, until this week, the details of the deal weren't in the public domain.

[quote PutYourBackIntoit]I've been cross with the BBC coverage on this whole debacle, and have been looking elsewhere for more balanced journalism. Cant believe I think I found it in RT! The headline will be divisive but I think it's true nevertheless.

www.rt.com/op-ed/513811-uk-eu-vaccine-failure-brexit/[/quote]
What is the RT, please? I haven't come across them.

In Berlin, the government is hopping mad with Von der Leyen, who has never been a popular figure in her homeland. Only a third of Germans ever thought she’d make a good European president, and her high-handed approach to taking control of vaccine policy has gone down like a bat kebab.

Amused lip-twitch.

If the consequences weren't so serious this would be highly entertaining spectator sport. As is? I really feel for anyone waiting on a vaccine.

@Guinan - that doesn't cover cost of the actual raw materials, vaccines, etc. The up-front payment was only to set up the third party manufacturing facilities (which was done, but they need time to improve because there were issues in the process).

@Motorina - RT are Russia. Interesting for market info and their take on matters, but unsurprisingly have a slant that's very anti EU.

@MRex - thank you, that's helpful. It didn't read as particularly unbiased. (Although I am still amused by the "bat-kebab" line.)

I’m intrigued about Sputnik and Russia’s ability to make a vaccine and already have its citizens vaccinated. I have to say I thought it was just nonsense when I first read it but then I read that another country will be using Sputnik too. Anyone know anything about that vaccine?

Or checked Pfizer are ready and willing to go to court with their contracts, they will have a view on that too.

That too

Sputnik V was approved prior to phase 3 trials. This clearly helped it get to market faster, but is not in accordance with standard research practice.

Which doesn't mean it's a bad vaccine, of course. Just that the data isn't (wasn't?) there, certainly not in a public form where it could be subject to regulatory scrutiny.

More info, albeit now rather out of date, at www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30402-1/fulltext

Procurement perspective here. AZ are making the vaccine at cost. Normally in these scenarios, if a customer is driving down the price per item, it has the effect of reducing the total cost available to the supplier to produce the item. It might mean that the supplier has to negotiate reduced costs further down the supply chain, buy cheaper (potentially inferior) components or simply cut corners.

Eg if it costs the supplier £100 for 100 widgets, that means £1 each. But if the customer says we only want to pay 85p per item, the supplier only has £85 to manufacture the item (otherwise it’s operating at a loss).

I don’t see the logic of EU driving down the AZ costs and delaying for 3 months in the process.

@MRex- thank you, that's helpful. It didn't read as particularly unbiased. (Although I am still amused by the "bat-kebab" line.

I agree with this and dislike some of their stronger adjectives, but at the moment I'm unsure if RT is any more unbiased than the BBC. I'm going to try reading across a few platforms from now on.

There has been talk of Oxford and Sputnik being part of a combined regimen. To do with the immune system becoming too blase and failing to react to the carrier agent on repeat vaccination.

Was an interesting interview on Spectator TV a while back. A UK scientist was advocating for using first to market vaccines no matter which country produced them and then coming a bit unstuck over whether they would rely on 3rd country trial data with regard to eg Russia. The obvious way around this for BigPharma is joint collaboration.

And now France and Germany taking legal action against AZ, a vaccine they think is mediocre.

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/31/france-germany-threaten-covid-astrazeneca-vaccine-shortageeu-uk

I found this interesting. I hope the links work- I'm never sure with Apple.

apple.news/AReuXV1zPT5eBCuDB2TNueg

This is so bad.

Any legal eagles care to weigh up on their chances?

It's probably best for this to get to court as soon as possible. Either it exposes the EC position or reveals that no delivery can be relied upon from the EU regardless of contracts, but at least then there's clarity.

To me it really strongly suggests there are more vaccines due to the UK from the EU factories, which is surprising, even moreso if they aren't explicitly listed in that contract. I just don't think astrazeneca would prioritise UK deliveries over EU deliveries from EU factories if the contracts didn't explicitly state this. Export authorisation and blocking is a different legal matter, I guess that one will be tested soon as well.

What on earth?

It feels completely insane that they don't understand that 'best reasonable efforts' clause exists precisely because AZ already had other contract commitments, and due to the high probability of supply chain issues (as experienced initially in the UK).

France, Germany would do better to sue the EU for negligence in acting quickly enough to enable them to get a more prescriptive contract, although I'm sure they're probably not allowed to

I feel so sorry for the AZ workforce right now, they're no doubt working around the clock.

@Dinnafashyersel

There has been talk of Oxford and Sputnik being part of a combined regimen. To do with the immune system becoming too blase and failing to react to the carrier agent on repeat vaccination.

Was an interesting interview on Spectator TV a while back. A UK scientist was advocating for using first to market vaccines no matter which country produced them and then coming a bit unstuck over whether they would rely on 3rd country trial data with regard to eg Russia. The obvious way around this for BigPharma is joint collaboration.

Absolutely. With new variants on the rise it may turn out that a blend of vaccines work best. Am I naive to have thought that such trials were already being planned?

I'd love to have one Oxford and one Novovax, if we're choosing. Attack the spike and the protein.

And now France and Germany taking legal action against AZ, a vaccine they think is mediocre.

It doesn't make sense & just a waste of more time & money.

I'm struggling to see how they can take it to court right now. The first 100 million doses are due by the end of March, until the end of March AZ don't seem to actually be in breach (even if there was a firm commitment to supply a certain number of doses).

Report in Israel of a trial of a third booster.
www.timesofisrael.com/pfizer-moderna-both-testing-3rd-dose-booster-shots-to-combat-virus-variants/amp/?__twitter_impression=true