CEV won’t be fully protected until May onwards 😕

[Acti]

Woke up to news that Oxford has been approved - great!

The entire family were hoping this might mean my CEV parents would be fully protected in February, as the online calculator showed they would be called for their first jab at the end of January (had Oxford vaccinations started last week of Dec).

But now that they are introducing a 12 week wait between both jabs, they won’t receive their first jab until early Feb and won’t get full protection until their second jab in early May.

I just can’t believe this.

This bastard fucking nightmare feels never ending.

This change also makes a lot of sense in terms of how people are likely to behave. There is a need to keep going with distancing until a large proportion are vaccinated, not just the vulnerable. Previously healthy people under 50 can also be very ill with this.

If people believe they have 90% protection, they are likely to go back to interacting normally with others. However, it has not been tested whether having the vaccine stops anyone getting and spreading coronavirus. I think it may actually be 90% of people protected so 1 in 10 will think they are when they are not.

We all need to keep up with distancing and masks to try to bring numbers down until most of the population is vaccinated. Otherwise, vaccines will be less useful.

The longer space between first and second dose increases protection - so say mhra on TV right now.

What is CEV when it’s at home? I’ve never heard that expression before.

Clinically extremely vulnerable - those who have been asked to shield.

[quote CabinClose]@Em777, that person was almost certainly already incubating the virus when they received the vaccination.[/quote]
You can’t know that.

This is a controversial opinion but I really think the CEV should be number one priority. I know that a lot of evidence has gone into the decision for priority groups so I accept and trust that what they have decided truly is the best course of action. However, I just have to vent because I feel that the CEV have been largely forgotten about. They have spent the majority of 2020 isolated in their homes and probably incredibly anxious. Nobody talks about their mental health and the implications of knowing a virus is circulating that they are 'extremely' vulnerable to.

The CEV includes people who up until March 2020 were probably living a completely normal life - they include parents of young children, healthcare workers, teachers (and other key workers), university students, etc. In tier 4 they have been told not to go to work at all, their lives are completely on hold.

Again, I trust that the decision for priority groups is evidenced-based. I just have to vent my frustrations. I say all of this as someone who is 'just' CV and not ECV.

@FourTeaFallOut thanks.

They have spent the majority of 2020 isolated in their homes and probably incredibly anxious. Nobody talks about their mental health and the implications of knowing a virus is circulating that they are 'extremely' vulnerable to.

I get that, but so have the over-80s?

@glassbrightly

I'm very pro vaccine, but I find this worrying. The data on leaving a longer gap between vaccines has not been published (nor does it seem that the majority of the vaccine trial was set up with that test). Nor has the data been clear on what if any of the trial was on vulnerable people- yes the Oxford trial was on older people but not those who were vulnerable.

So in short, this is possibly (depending on the data re the longer gap) a better option for the majority (including CEV) but for those with CEV concerns it does potentially mean longer isolation to the summer.

Yes, really hoping they release updated data on dose interval.

Compared to the other vaccine trials there were remarkably few over 55s. None in the LD/SD trial, 20% in the SD/SD UK trial, less than 10% in the Brazilian trial.

From the mhra press conference now, 22days after first dose the efficacy is approximately 70% but very cautious about the data. More data to be put in public domain later.

However, I just have to vent because I feel that the CEV have been largely forgotten about.

Except that is completely untrue. The economy has taken the biggest hit in decades, millions of school children have lost big chunks of their education, thousands upon thousands have lost jobs or are likely to soon. All in order to reduce the spread of a virus which has little effect on the majority of people. My personal risk of dying from COVID is pretty much zero, but I’ve still given up absolutely loads this year. It’s really quite offensive to accuse people of “forgetting” about CEV people after everything which has been done (nationally) to protect them.

I will confess I cried with relief this morning. It does feel like light at the end of the shielding tunnel. Reducing the risk by any significant amount soon will do me.

To be honest, as one of the CEV I have sort of become used to this new life of seeing absolutely nobody in person and not going anywhere.

Yes it is absolutely awful, but what does a few more weeks matter? It is all sort of blurring into one big long boring time of being stuck in my flat feeling lonely.

I’ve been assuming that the next few months will be awful, much like the last year has been. I am just thankful that at some point in the future this will be over.

No one in the trial who got at least one dose needed hospital.

Prof Gilbert’s actual quotation had “in the 21 days after receiving the first dose” on the end of it.

I agree with a PP. There is no (public?) data for people who took the second dose 12 weeks later!

I am CV and am in priority group 6. I don’t mind waiting 12 weeks between my jabs. But the CEV should get their vaccinations on the four week schedule. As a PP said, their lives have been put on hold for nearly a year now. They shouldn’t have to wait until May 2021 to be ‘released.’

@Em777 for many ECV people it’s had a huge financial impact. It hasn’t effected over 80s ability to get their pension but it has effected many ECV ability to earn their wages and for some ECV people they have either had to stop seeing their young children or keep them home from school.

@annevonkleve

I haven’t seen my elderly parents since March. They haven’t left their house even for a walk

Your choice and theirs. There is no risk attached to a walk outside, especially in the spring and summer when it was warm and the virus levels dropped to virtually nothing after the first lockdown. You could have also gone to see them even if you kept your distance.

Your reaction to the virus is not the government's concern.

I’ve been listening by chance to R4 which was talking of the importance of exercise boosting the immune system. The discussion was with a geriatrician and other specialists, talking about ageing. Not leaving the house for even a walk is physically and mentally unhealthy and bad for their immune system unless they are completely disabled?

@glassbrightly

I'm very pro vaccine, but I find this worrying. The data on leaving a longer gap between vaccines has not been published (nor does it seem that the majority of the vaccine trial was set up with that test). Nor has the data been clear on what if any of the trial was on vulnerable people- yes the Oxford trial was on older people but not those who were vulnerable.

So in short, this is possibly (depending on the data re the longer gap) a better option for the majority (including CEV) but for those with CEV concerns it does potentially mean longer isolation to the summer.

The regulatory authorities will have all the data so far whether or not it has been published. If they have decided that it is okay spread the vaccinations by three months, I'm happy with that. As someone who will be CEV again, a reduction in risk will be worth a lot.

But @Acti that wont necessarily release them though if community transmission is still high. No vaccine can eradicate it on its own and the risk comes from transmission figures. Two doses is just as likely to keep them in (not least of all because restrictions will still in place) and the longer schedule.

Reducing spread/transmission and getting hospital numbers lower is the best way forward for everyone. The new strain is a gamechanger in the approach it has to be getting transmission down

@Em777 Table 5 does indeed show one person hospitalised - in the meningitis vaccine (placebo) group!

[quote Cyclingwidow15]@Moondust001maybe I’ve been spun a lie by my source then [/quote]
Yes, that is what happened. You were spun a lie.

And since everyone knows that your 'source' was Facebook, you can go back there and set the record straight maybe?

I am CV and am in priority group 6. I don’t mind waiting 12 weeks between my jabs. But the CEV should get their vaccinations on the four week schedule. As a PP said, their lives have been put on hold for nearly a year now. They shouldn’t have to wait until May 2021 to be ‘released.’

I appreciate the sentiment but I think the CEV of working age will have to wait even longer if they shorten the time between vaccinations. The only chance of us getting it any earlier will be if older people just get one jab.

@Quartz2208

But *@Acti* that wont necessarily release them though if community transmission is still high. No vaccine can eradicate it on its own and the risk comes from transmission figures. Two doses is just as likely to keep them in (not least of all because restrictions will still in place) and the longer schedule.

Reducing spread/transmission and getting hospital numbers lower is the best way forward for everyone. The new strain is a gamechanger in the approach it has to be getting transmission down

It's not really a case of being "released" though. People can assess their own risks. If I was vaccinated I would start going out more as even if it hadn't totally worked, the risk of severe infection would be reduced.

@ChloeCrocodile

However, I just have to vent because I feel that the CEV have been largely forgotten about.

Except that is completely untrue. The economy has taken the biggest hit in decades, millions of school children have lost big chunks of their education, thousands upon thousands have lost jobs or are likely to soon. All in order to reduce the spread of a virus which has little effect on the majority of people. My personal risk of dying from COVID is pretty much zero, but I’ve still given up absolutely loads this year. It’s really quite offensive to accuse people of “forgetting” about CEV people after everything which has been done (nationally) to protect them.

I apologise, I didn't mean it in that way. I just feel like the narrative has largely focussed on protecting the elderly. I think that people forget about all of the CEV people who have had to bear the strictest of restrictions as well as the mental load of knowing they are high risk.

I disagree that this virus has little effect on the majority of people. If it were allowed to run its course and the situation with the NHS got anymore dire it would affect everyone as we would not have a functioning healthcare system.

OP I can appreciate personal emotions are high and everyone is entitled to their own feelings, but this isn’t a case of your parents being “released” or not. We don’t know where they are located but a lot of ECV have actually been free and actively encouraged to leave the house since August, if they choose not to do that is their decision as well as family / friends deciding not to make socially distanced visits, realistically a vaccination (1 or 2 doses) isn’t going to magically alter their mindset overnight. My in-laws have done the same thing and it is going to take a very long time to mentally convince them out of the voluntary fort their have put up around themselves. I would be working on them now, prepping them to start making baby steps on getting the first dose and gradually build their confidence up of the outside world after that and then by time of second dose they may be mentally more ready for more fully ending their confinement, also coinciding with better weather which is more enticing to go out in, given the extreme they have gone to over the last 9-10 months voluntarily those mental barriers are likely going to take the same time regardless of whether they got the 2nd dose quicker or not.

I appreciate the sentiment but I think the CEV of working age will have to wait even longer if they shorten the time between vaccinations. The only chance of us getting it any earlier will be if older people just get one jab

Absolutely. I'm not saying a little prayer when the kids go to school because they may come back with a virus that produces a mild illness. I don't need 100% efficacy, I need protection from severe illness, hospitalisation and death - which can be achieved with one jab.

[quote CabinClose]@Cyclingwidow15 Nice user name. Did your DH die in a cycling accident. Because some people’s have.

Also your story is absolute bollocks. No one has private access to vaccines in the U.K. and no one except the trial participants has yet received the Oxford vaccine. Stop spreading dangerous fake news online.[/quote]
Surely the username is a reference to their DH spending lots of time cycling and thus hardly ever being at home? I read it as meaning rhe same as golf widow