SCHOOLS: How could we do it better??

[SnowGnome]

The debate on schools reopening is getting pretty heated, we know two clear and opposing considerations.

1. School is the best place for children to be

2. Not closing schools will accelerate spread, putting families and staff at risk of short term illness, long term illness and death. It also means that tens of thousands will see bubbles closing with cases in Tier 4 areas anyway, removing all provision for key-worker and vulnerable children.

Neither of these considerations is really up for debate, they’re both obvious. The fury seems to be over whether one is more important than the other. But surely that’s the wrong question to be asking and both points matter.

The problem is that the solutions proposed are equally divided: close schools or don’t close them

There have to be better solutions, so what are your ideas, and how would other people’s suggestions affect you? We all really seem to want the same thing here which is as much time in school as possible, but without risking spread. I’ll put a couple of suggestions in next post.

If you’ve come on here to say “it doesn’t spread in schools, children don’t get ill from it, we never had any in our bubble last term blah blah” this isn’t the thread for you. Find somewhere else. This thread is about trying to find a better way through, not being dogmatically tied to one of two completely incompatible points of view.

I think they should have actually tried the original plan to use rotas to reduce the numbers in school at any one time

I have two dc in secondary, two in primary and one in private nursery. The primary school has been affected much more than the others and my four year old has done 6 weeks of isolation.

From my point of view (and this is due to my own concerns only). DS (Y13) had no schooling March - July. The school was not geared up to teach online and in any case his A’level subjects are practical (think Product Design, Textiles, Photography etc) where he needs access to specific kit and software only available in school. He drifted doing not very much for these months. To miss more school would seriously harm his future when he is due to leave school in June.

I think the government is only thinking about one type of child who can be taught online.

I would call for acceleration of the vaccine for teachers and secondary school pupils in exam years. This in turn would protect against ‘super spreaders’ and by default protect the general population and the NHS.

At the very worst I would say keep schools open for those who cannot be taught at home due to their subjects / or keep school open for exam years.

To miss more school for those children due to leave very soon would be devastating. These older children ‘may’ continue to mix anyway and therefore vaccination is key.

I do feel as if some groups have children have been forgotten. They are missing out on the crucial parts of growing up at a stage in their lives they won’t get back. I would urge the government to think very hard about the future of these groups.

Gov works woth tech to provide temp wifi/Internet to population without. Go online for 2, 3 or 4 weeks, reviewed at regular intervals. Key worker kids and y11 and 13 back in physically.

I really don't know the answer but I really hope they don't bring back the 'key worker' children can still attend rule. I feel like we have only just managed to get rid of people proclaiming every 5 minutes that they are a key worker and so need free stuff, kids in school, priority access to places etc. I can't stand it.

I think the answer is already out there. It was debated in July and some quite vocal selfish people have the government and excuse not to do it- because it would cost money.

1. Rotas
2. investment in online teaching branches in secondaries for vulnerable kids and families who want online.
3. extra child care settings in ‘nightingale’ centres to support childcare for working parents.
4. social distancing in schools provided by the above.

Years 7-9 online learning, Masks mandatory for secondary teachers and pupils.
I think primary is different, bubbles tend to be much smaller than secondary and the children can’t online learn independently or effectively. ECV pupils (or those with family members who are) and teachers should be given the Choice to work from home though,

Rota but not week on/week off. Split days as children like mine with additional needs would really really struggle with week on/week off.

Vulnerable children need to be in school everyday but not necessarily all day IMO. 8-11, decent clean then 12.30-3.30 sessions.

I find it shocking how little the government has done to engage with any of these good ideas. I feel like one of the main reasons they want schools in now is because they know they’ll be exposed for incompetence when home learning doesn’t work again.

I’ve also thought about moving term dates. We need to use the holidays to better achieve our wider goals which this year must be managing the pandemic and maximising education.

From the perspective there’s no reason not to have “half-term” now, maybe even a week of the summer holidays, which would mean children wouldn’t lose their actual time in school but a couple of weeks could buy us an important break to reduce transmission now, rather than just having the extra time off later.

Oh and allowing parents who are willing or need to (due to ECV) the option of teaching at home whilst retaining school place

Online school for most, invitation back to school for vulnerable kids. Schools to decide who those kids are. They know which kids came back really hit by all the time at home. Strict social distancing for those who go in.

Should add I'm talking specifically secondary there. So in most cases not so much pressure for parents who need to leave kids to go to work themselves.

@Rubyrubyrubyred how would that work, would you just have them in for eg academic subjects and have same sized groups but only half of them? Eg Yr 7 and 8 morning, 9 and 10 afternoon?

Or would you split a class in two and have half in morning, half in afternoon?

I can see how splitting the class would work in primary, but in secondary difficult with different subject teachers

If the Oxford jab is approved soon 🤞🏻 I say we get into high schools immediately and jab staff and pupils.
The vaccination teams already going into schools are best placed to do it, and could suspend the current work to fulfil it.

Btw I would support a rota idea and I do think the idea of everyone being in each day for some time is a good one

@FippertyGibbett can I ask why not primaries too? There’s evidence of increased spread in primaries as well as secondaries in December, and the early years are also crucial (plus its more demanding on parents to homeschool younger kids)

Problem is I’m pretty certain the vaccine hasn’t been tested on anyone under 16

[quote SnowGnome]@FippertyGibbett can I ask why not primaries too? There’s evidence of increased spread in primaries as well as secondaries in December, and the early years are also crucial (plus its more demanding on parents to homeschool younger kids)

Problem is I’m pretty certain the vaccine hasn’t been tested on anyone under 16[/quote]
You’ve answered your own question there !

How long would it take to vaccinate 8 million kids? That’s how long schools would be to be shut for. I reckons three months.

The vaccine offers us no help here.

@snowgnome for year 11 and 13 they would need as normal as possible but for other year groups they could just focus on core subjects whilst this is in place? The lessons could be more input based and then the kids work on the set work during their time at home. It would need some epic rejigging of timetables though. It really is rock and a hard place for schools. I don't think anyone is wrong on either side of the argument but there absolutely needs to be a decent cash flow available to schools. Perhaps schools and LAs need to be trusted to work out what works for their school within a series of options?

I actually lean towards your (2) but:

Rota teaching
Much more money given to schools and colleges to implement cleaning
Exams - either cancel and replace with coursework (?) or another credible alternative.
As much outdoor teaching/play for primary kids as possible (I know it's winter, but this seems to me like one way to keep kids from being isolated while minimising risk).
Teachers and school staff a priority for vaccinations.

I agree in shifting terms. I know it’s not ideal, but I think if it coincided with strict lockdowns, we’d get three weeks to break an infection cycle, which I think would be preferable to the total uncertainty we have now.

I’d accept that some degree of secondary would be online, and have smaller numbers in any day. I realise they’d oils still be sharing teachers, but it would still be an improvement and there would be much more ability to have social distancing.

I’m really struggling with ideas for primary.

We need either rotas or additional space (and teaching staff) to spread children across appropriate space. The bubbles of 8 in the summer had space, single desks etc. We now have 32 in the same area, with no room to space the children out.

We need additional hygiene facilities: 1 sink between those same 32 washing hands for 20 seconds each- the hot water runs out and it takes 15 minutes each time (obs can’t use another bubble’s room and our toilet spaces have no ventilation so not safe for groups to use).

We need children to have access to the technology needed to work at home, or budget to provide work packs. Teaching online and teaching a class are different (I delivered daily live lessons in lockdown and learned new skills and ideas in the process- good CPD, but utterly terrifying at first). If we are to provide both successfully, this needs to be looked into. How do we provide for both lessons? A camera pointing at me isn’t as good as being in the room where I can see your reaction, an online lesson relies on me not managing behaviour but scanning dozens of little boxes.

Masks: we are one of the few places who seem to think children wouldn’t cope. Spain, for example, have pupils in masks from 6. Why are our children any different?

I’m not suggesting these are perfect solutions. Professionally, I want to be teaching my class (actually I want to be able to Bob down beside them and help them in a quieter, 1:1 way than I can now). Personally, I really need DS to be accessing his teachers’ time and expertise.

For reference: I’m a primary teacher in a tier 4 area, my district has the highest level of infection. The area DS (gcse year) goes to school in has the highest level of infection in the district, my school is in an area with the 2nd highest infection rate. I’ve spent Christmas in self isolation.

Financial support for working parents, temporary closure and a restructuring of the next couple of school years. Things will be at least a bit better in the summer. We should have kids in school then but off now. It would suck and I don’t really want time off when it’s cold and nasty, but surely it could be made to work and give us a few weeks breathing space now.

Rotas, masks etc would have worked in September but I think that ship has sailed and I don’t think even that is enough for the new strain.

I think the U.K. should look at what other countries are doing. For example, in the UAE, classes are in (with masks) but as I understand it (I don’t have school age children) some of the kids are at home and the whole school day is on zoom so that the kids in the classroom and those at home are learning the same things. My sister is a teacher in the U.K., and isn’t allowed to be “on camera”. I realise not every child has access to wifi or a tablet, but most do and equipment could be made available to those that don’t.

@IHateThesePosts

Years 7-9 online learning, Masks mandatory for secondary teachers and pupils. I think primary is different, bubbles tend to be much smaller than secondary and the children can’t online learn independently or effectively. ECV pupils (or those with family members who are) and teachers should be given the Choice to work from home though,

Primary bubbles here are groups of 60+, with additional staff, that's not small in this game at all

At primary schools I think something needs to be done about parents. The kids at my sons school seem to be doing ok but the vast majority of parents can't seem to follow basic rules. The place is crowded with people stood about chatting to each other blocking pathways and gates and huffing when you ask them to move aside.