SCHOOLS: How could we do it better??

[SnowGnome]

The debate on schools reopening is getting pretty heated, we know two clear and opposing considerations.

1. School is the best place for children to be

2. Not closing schools will accelerate spread, putting families and staff at risk of short term illness, long term illness and death. It also means that tens of thousands will see bubbles closing with cases in Tier 4 areas anyway, removing all provision for key-worker and vulnerable children.

Neither of these considerations is really up for debate, they’re both obvious. The fury seems to be over whether one is more important than the other. But surely that’s the wrong question to be asking and both points matter.

The problem is that the solutions proposed are equally divided: close schools or don’t close them

There have to be better solutions, so what are your ideas, and how would other people’s suggestions affect you? We all really seem to want the same thing here which is as much time in school as possible, but without risking spread. I’ll put a couple of suggestions in next post.

If you’ve come on here to say “it doesn’t spread in schools, children don’t get ill from it, we never had any in our bubble last term blah blah” this isn’t the thread for you. Find somewhere else. This thread is about trying to find a better way through, not being dogmatically tied to one of two completely incompatible points of view.

Personally this is what I would do.

1. Give teachers notice that schools will not be going back early if possible.
2. Teachers plan online lessons to be delivered in real time and pre recorded. For the pre recorded sessions the teacher is on hand with emails for any questions that might need an urgent answer.
3. All staff that can work from home including any admin teams, finance teams, reception teams etc are to do so to reduce footfall
4. SEN and keyworker children are identified and invited to come in where for those teachers who are happy to be on site they teach/ give them access to computers to have the same content as those at home. This would also be for those who do not have access to the internet
5. Years 11 and 13 do not come on site (having 30 16 or 17/18 year olds in small rooms is ridiculous!) however have a very structured online learning system

@SaltyAF, can you link to a thread where NobleG lays our her plan in specific bullet point detail? She posts on so many threads, I couldn't find it.

Before when I tried to follow NG before, most of her points are things DS school already does. but NG would rant that all schools were very unsafe so I felt alienated.

I don't think that's fair trout. She acknowledges some schools are doing a slightly better job. It's down to leadership.

That said, my DS's schol is far better than mine at this stuff and has had more (known) cases. Without something quite major happening in every, it's Canute holding back the tide .

It is absolutely not fair that FE settings and some sixth form colleges have been allowed to use rotas and remote learning throughout but my DS's sixth form can't because they are part of a whole school trust even though they have a separate site.

every school.

The advice is very secondary centric. People seem to assume primaries are cosy bubbles. They are not. My year 6 bubble of 32 kids (with a new arrival next week!) is crammed into a Victorian classroom with ineffective ventilation, windows that open an inch and one toilet block of 4 loos for 3 classes and one entrance and exit point for all 3.My sink doesn't work and isn't connected. My class walk home alone and congregate outside of school with all the other classes and secondary students. Some of them bus home with other year groups.

I would like rotas. I have two or three to a desk and can never be 2m away from any of them. If I had half for the morning and half for the afternoon it would significantly reduce risk. This is the most effective idea.

I would like them to wear masks.
I would like them to not come in ill dosed up with calpol.
I would like to not have to mark all their work physically.
I would like to have staff to supervise their lunch and break so I am not with them ALL DAY apart from 20 minutes.
I'd like a sink.
I'd like windows that open and ventilation.
I'd like parents to not allow them to mix outside of schools or have sleepovers or parties. They tell me all about them which is lovely for them but not great for me.
I'd like no more staff meetings.
I'd like the added pressure of SATS removed.
I'd like more staff so I'm not alone doing all of the cleaning.
I'd like it not to be a question of "you can either buy your own sanitizer or glue sticks, you can't have both"
I'd like an outdoor shelter and coatracks so we don't have to share cloakrooms.
I'd like my prp measures removed and observations stopped.
I'd like a vaccination.

I'd like parents picking up kids with staggered starts and finishes to not hang around and chat.
Much as I love my peripatetic PE teacher, he visits lots of schools and shouldn't be in.
I'd like the expectation that I will handle misbehaving children removed. I don't want to break up fights or restrain children right now.
I want children that spit, cough or deliberately physically contact me or another child that way to be sent home.
I'd like not to be gaslighted into thinking i am safe.
I'd like not to be viewed as a workshy babysitter.

@SnowGnome

I can honestly only think that the “keep schools open at any cost” approach is simply to try stop complete mismanagement of the situation being exposed by all involved, and reduce the need for another embarrassing u-turn on exams.

There are so many good suggestions on here that would make learning more safe and effective! Why the all or nothing approach? It’s simply a recipe for disaster when the schools collapse because there aren’t enough staff to teach! And services collapse because there aren’t enough childcare places for kids who would otherwise have been catered for in planned closures.

The all or nothing approach is because they've had too.

All these ideas have been suggested and wanted to be discussed by unions since April.
Government took line labour and unions want to keep schools shut.
They have decided therefore to say schools are safe and will be kept open.
They have now decided to stick to that.

Despite threatening legal action to a school authority who wanted to switch to online learning (not close they as they and media kept stating) the last week of term.
That authority now has a hospital that can't cope.

@phlebasconsidered I agree, I don’t think there is sufficient justification for differentiating between primary and secondary at all now we’ve reached this stage.

@itsgettingweird yes good points. I don’t think the unions have helped themselves or their members at all. By sticking to such an adversary line they’ve forced a government who does not like to consult into a corner, making it harder than ever for them to change their mind as they know they’ll be accused of more u-turns.

What adversary line OP? I haven't had anything other than vaguely worded newsletters form my union for months. This idea that they are engaged in some pitched battle needs evidencing.

I want them to be more forceful!
I really don't think the unions forced the gov into a corner. They put themselves in their fighting corner!

phleb as a secondary teacher, I want all the same things apart from coat racks. Well said.

Yes, what adversary line? NASUWT have done the square root of fuck all to keep me safe at work.

This really isn't the unions' fault

The govt. needs to resource the risk mitigation, but is simply unwilling to. I have no idea why you or anyone would find it more convenient to fall into the political trap of blaming the unions for wanting worker safety.

Got to love the idea the unions are all fighty and causing all this. The unions have done nothing. Government makes so much stuff up I have stopped listening.

[quote yeOldeTrout]@SaltyAF, can you link to a thread where NobleG lays our her plan in specific bullet point detail? She posts on so many threads, I couldn't find it.

Before when I tried to follow NG before, most of her points are things DS school already does. but NG would rant that all schools were very unsafe so I felt alienated.[/quote]
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4095400-noblegiraffe-wants-SAFER-schools-not-closed-schools-Do-you

Love the good thinking here. Refreshing - really it’s not either/or and if Gavin Williamson can’t find a way through he should be sacked as clearly can’t do his job which is run education through these times.

Years 11 and 13 in full time with masks, so if a mate two rows away tests positive, you don't have to self isolate a third of the class for ten days. For those who object, SI would still be mandatory.
PPE for teachers. A paper mask will do, it's all most nurses have.
Remote learning for other year groups until Feb then review.
Open for key worker primary DC.

Masks are not considered when choosing who to SI cp.

Humble opinion from a primary teacher who desperately wants schools to stay open:

1. FUNDING - cleaning and supply budgets already been exceeded for the year by October. Additional cleaners have had to be let go now. Bare minimum cleaning happening now, by teaching staff who are simultaneously serving lunches/administering medication to/trying to support SEN children/prepping lessons for the afternoon/trying to find a moment to go to the loo. Any staff absence is a disaster as we can’t afford cover, yet have been on a skeleton staff for years. A pregnant reception teacher at my school passed out mid way through the afternoon of last term because she hadn’t had a chance to eat or drink since 7.30am due to support staff shortage.
2. Rotas if needed, with Nightingale childcare hubs for where both parents have to work out of the home. FUNDING needed for this.
3. Extra hand washing/toilet facilities (three toilet cubicles and three sinks shared between all boys at our school of 210). Again would need FUNDING.
4. Children and staff allowed to wear masks (maybe not teachers during direct teaching input, but otherwise).
5. Staff that are needed to keep schools open are quickly vaccinated.
6. Massive scaling up of Oak Academy/similar to cover other half of classes in a rota system. Streamed through BBC channels (one channel per year group) for families who don’t have sufficient wifi/devices. Extra TVs provided where needed to access this. Again, FUNDING.
7. Alternative arrangements made for secondary exams this year, primary tests cancelled (only used by government to rank schools, no use for transition from primary to secondary etc).

As you’ve probably gathered, the key issue is funding, as I expect is the situation in all public services in the U.K. right now. Schools have been stretched to the bone for years now, with budgets decreasing in real terms and demands on schools increasing year on year. This is why the situation is so dire at the moment; there is not a penny spare to buy extra cleaning materials, if a member of staff is off there is no one to cover.

Part time classroom schooling, with online learning the rest of the time. Co- ordinated in school time with siblings. Home test kits for the days going in.

Before when I tried to follow NG before, most of her points are things DS school already does. but NG would rant that all schools were very unsafe so I felt alienated.

and yet here we are.

Here's my letter to MPs if anyone wants to write to theirs. Feel free to amend. www.writetothem.com/

Dear

I am writing to you because I am deeply concerned about the current situation in schools and the dangers of this new strain that caused so many problems in secondary schools in London and the South East before they broke up for Christmas.

The science seems to suggest that the new strain is more transmissible, and was severely disruptive to education, with attendance in Kent secondary schools on 10th December only at 55%, with other areas also badly affected. This is very worrying in terms of the ability of schools to provide quality education if large numbers of children are at home and also if staff are badly affected.

Cleary, it would be foolish to re-open secondary schools in January without major changes to account for this new strain. I welcome the move to a staggered start in secondary to reduce the number of pupils in school for the first week to reduce the risks caused by increased infection rates due to Christmas mixing.

I understand that the government has decided to test every secondary student in the first week of January. This would be a positive move, however the plan was announced very late in the term, giving Heads one working day's notice, inadequate resources, inadequate funding and no staffing. All the teaching and headteaching unions, including from the private sector say that this is impossible and will not be implemented in time. In addition, the testing is to use lateral flow tests whose usefulness is now heavily disputed due to only catching 50% of positive cases.

It's clear we cannot rely on mass testing as a solution to the schools problem and this should be discarded from any planning for schools at the start of January.

I am also horrified to hear that secondary schools are to be instructed to no longer send close contacts of positive cases home to isolate and instead test close contacts in school for 7 days using these ineffective lateral flow tests. This means that pupils at high risk of covid will be travelling to school on school buses and public transport, and then potentially released into classrooms if the test fails to detect their infection. This would appear to be less safe than the current scenario of sending those pupils home to isolate and should be abandoned on health and safety grounds.

The current mitigation measures in schools are wholly inadequate to deal with this new strain and need an urgent review. I am very concerned that the debate seems to focus on a binary between schools open or closed, with no discussion about making them safer.

I would suggest:

Mass testing of pupils using gold-standard tests before re-entry to school, properly administered and resourced, not given to schools to organise
Urgent funding to improve ventilation in classrooms
Masks to be worn in secondary classrooms.
Removal of the threat of fines for clinically vulnerable pupils
Testing of bubbles where there are positive cases and wider sending home of contacts where further cases are found.
In Tier 4, or in schools with significant numbers affected, rotas should be implemented to ensure that more pupils get some consistent face to face teaching.

Please can you pass my concerns to Gavin Williamson and the DfE and seek an urgent response to these issues?

Many thanks, and Merry Christmas

I'm actually a bit teary that so many people have included not fining or removing the place of a child kept at home because of an ECV family member. There are a couple of us banging on about this but it's nice to see it being included.

Anyway, pulling myself together...
Yes split rotas to reduce overcrowding, masks, online provision wherever possible. Making the vaccine available to teachers. SI in addition to testing at secondary.
I really like the idea of putting lessons on iPlayer. Hopefully enough teachers would be willing to do it to provide a full curriculum nationally.

@cptartapp

Years 11 and 13 in full time with masks, so if a mate two rows away tests positive, you don't have to self isolate a third of the class for ten days. For those who object, SI would still be mandatory. PPE for teachers. A paper mask will do, it's all most nurses have. Remote learning for other year groups until Feb then review. Open for key worker primary DC.

I agree re masks. I think that there should still be testing and isolation of the whole bubble with a positive case though.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate

I'm actually a bit teary that so many people have included not fining or removing the place of a child kept at home because of an ECV family member. There are a couple of us banging on about this but it's nice to see it being included.

Anyway, pulling myself together...
Yes split rotas to reduce overcrowding, masks, online provision wherever possible. Making the vaccine available to teachers. SI in addition to testing at secondary.
I really like the idea of putting lessons on iPlayer. Hopefully enough teachers would be willing to do it to provide a full curriculum nationally.

yes thanks re CEV families. It would be nice not to be punished right now.

Piggy we all know secondary students don't need coatracks because they don't wear coats! I watch my own two wander off in their blazers in minus temperatures because clearly something happens to bodies after year 6!

@the80sweregreat

Lbc news today reporting that the army will be deployed to test the children in secondary schools.

Not to test. To provide remote support. Helplines and webinars. Whoop de do.