SCHOOLS: How could we do it better??

[SnowGnome]

The debate on schools reopening is getting pretty heated, we know two clear and opposing considerations.

1. School is the best place for children to be

2. Not closing schools will accelerate spread, putting families and staff at risk of short term illness, long term illness and death. It also means that tens of thousands will see bubbles closing with cases in Tier 4 areas anyway, removing all provision for key-worker and vulnerable children.

Neither of these considerations is really up for debate, they’re both obvious. The fury seems to be over whether one is more important than the other. But surely that’s the wrong question to be asking and both points matter.

The problem is that the solutions proposed are equally divided: close schools or don’t close them

There have to be better solutions, so what are your ideas, and how would other people’s suggestions affect you? We all really seem to want the same thing here which is as much time in school as possible, but without risking spread. I’ll put a couple of suggestions in next post.

If you’ve come on here to say “it doesn’t spread in schools, children don’t get ill from it, we never had any in our bubble last term blah blah” this isn’t the thread for you. Find somewhere else. This thread is about trying to find a better way through, not being dogmatically tied to one of two completely incompatible points of view.

@SnowGnome

The thing is how can you shorten the holidays if teachers are working the same amount?

I already lost half of my Easter holidays and all of my may half term unpaid to help look after other people's children.

If you were to pay me then maybe..... don't forget most of the teacher's holidays are unpaid.

I know that sounds uncharitable but I think you will find that many teachers are sick of being bashed when we have been working so hard and are getting to the point where enough is enough.

( That isn't directed at you by the way - just a discussion point)

Rotas for secondary schools, children in perhaps once a week to begin with (years staggered over the week) and online learning the rest of the week.
Then monitor cases every couple of weeks with a view to expanding (in school two days, then three etc) when safe to do so.
Vulnerable children access to school every day.

@SnowGnome schools need the authority and backing of government to mandate isolation on any child they find out has not been following the relevant rules. Obviously it won't catch all of the rulebreaking but may be a decent deterrent once it happens a few times

Smaller bubbles. My daughters primary school is two form entry and both classes are in the same bubble of 60 plus students. This seems completely unnecessary. The bubble should be just the one class of 30 students.
I think it was managed well when they went back in June. At our school all year groups were invited back. 15 students at a time for 2 days a week with a Wednesday used for deep cleaning. I would support something like this again.

@VashtaNerada

The working group idea of people actually having to deal with the practicalities sounds like a fab idea!

The link between higher attainment and smaller class numbers is well documented, so smaller groups alternating with learning on line would soften the impact of less time in school.
Support those who want to teach children at home.

Rota system for primary schools.
Masks for ages over 6.
Allowing parents to homeschool without taking away child’s school place if valid reason and no safeguarding concerns
ECV teachers choice to work from home
Money provided for extra cleaning and teaching support.
Utilise empty community spaces.
DofE not threatening legal action against councils wishing to close schools due to high number of cases which a few days later sent millions into lockdown.

How long would it take to vaccinate 8 million kids?
The government see no problem with testing all secondary pupils for Covid when they go back to school, so can't see how this would be much worse?

Primary

1. Part-time attendance with Mon-Tues half class and Thurs-Fri half class. Chop the curriculum down to the essentials only. Wednesday for cleaning and for teachers to set online work. Scrap the ridiculous requirement for primary online work to mirror a full curriculum when so many children and parents can’t deal with that at home. Focus on the essentials. With half a class, I can get a lot done as a teacher in two days! Some school is better than no school for everyone including working parents! Provision needs to be made for school staff children possibly though if their parents are in full time BUT a lot of families can manage in other ways (mine included as DH works from home and whilst it’s not ideal he can cope with children for a few days a week - the two days of school will be better than nothing for his employer and for him!).
2. Compulsory for parents to produce evidence of test results for children AND household members if they want their children back in school after child or household symptoms meant a test was needed. Full 14 day isolation if they won’t test or produce evidence. Parents to stop arguing with school about symptoms and isolation. End of.
3. Temperature screening of children and staff in school.
4. Lateral flow testing twice weekly for all education and childcare staff.
5. Money please!!!! So that we can have extra cleaning and extra staffing to cover absence.

I think parents should do better. And yes, I am a parent. I am so tired to see how parents are arranging playdates, celebrate Christmas in big groups, refuse to keep the child at home during the period of isolation. We are in Tier 4!
I don't see how any measures would work until there is a sense of responsibility amongst the public. Nothing will work.

Quick comment on split rotas (apologies if it has already been noted -: I skimm read the thread).

Rotas need to be not split half a day in and half a day out. It's too hard to clean everything over the half way point to make it all clean for the afternoon kids. Much better actually to do a week on and a week off with a big clean on a Friday afternoon and the weekend to let anything die off.

I'm not convinced that even 2m distancing (which obviously schools don't have) would work against the new strain, we already know people can be infected when over 2m away for a long enough period of time, indoors.

Sanctions for parents who flout the rules and organise sleepovers, play dates and parties etc. Just. Not. Okay.

With infection rate soaring and hospitals(especially south east) over run things can’t stay as they were. Nothing is ideal but what is during a pandemic?!

Primary schools in tier 4 areas (at least) should revert to rotas. Half the class Mon and Tues, deep clean Wed with all teacher’s ppa/management time that day other half class Thurs and Fri. Schools when sorting classes should try and accommodate families so siblings in school same days.

Secondary schools should revert to online learning with schools being responsible for who to allowed in as they know their students best.

Government could help further with technology and financial assistance to employees and their employers by allowing flexible furlong for childcare reasons (primary age and SEN)

We are looking at 6 weeks maximum?

8 at most.

People are talking as if that's it, they will never go back. We've got bigger issues than we thought if schools can't cope with 6 weeks or children can't... In the span of a long learning life is 6 weeks so bad?

The government should set the home learning bar and ask schools who succeed on line to liaise on how they did it.

In self isolation our teacher got on line but refused to teach. She didn't even explain what she had posted on Oak academy! Not a word so again we were left trying to support whilst the teacher sat there talking about how important it was to get out? In fresh air... Asking children who have been out?

Schools should do audits of who has the tech to follow a lesson and who doesn't. Those who cannot access anything need to go in.

The government needs to reassure us that medics, hospitals, ambulances will be there for us should we fall ill. Its winter, so many other illnesses flourish in winter... Do we have guarantees of medical help?

What was once appropriate for the old strain is not workable now so I'm not sure what can be done to make classes safe.

I also think the cough scene from the film ‘Outbreak’ should be shown to all schoolchildren (and incorporated into some kind of national ad like the AIDS ones from the 80s) so they can see how easily germs spread

I'm a primary school supply teacher and the most shocking thing I found this term was the massive differences between headteacher interpretations of the safety guidelines.

In one school, no masks or visors were permitted without a doctor's note. One member of staff had to fight to be allowed to wear a visor as the head teacher didn't believe they were needed in her school.

Staff from different bubbles would cross in corridors or between classes (especially dinner staff) and staff from the same bubble would eat close together in unventilated rooms. Parents were not required to wear face masks at drop off or collection.

In other schools, masks were required in corridors and when dismissing children to parents. Most allowed the wearing of visors and some even allowed face masks when teaching.

Most schools were trying to ensure decent ventilation of their classrooms by opening windows and doors, but others did not seem to know the importance of this.

I think a set of guidelines would be beneficial to prevent individual head teachers from coming up with their own rules and ideas.

I also think face masks and visors should be worn by all staff in primary and secondary. Clear ones would solve the problem of children not being able to see the teacher's whole face.

Protect the vulnerable. Let teachers with underlying health conditions or students who live with adults with underlying health conditions learn remotely - everyone else should be in - I say this as a teacher. We will have an explosion of mental and physical health problems amongst school age children if not. To learn properly remotely is possible. I live stream all my lessons and attendance for those at home is close to 100%, including handing in homework and marking online. However I have had to buy my own equipment and have spent time training properly to use Teams. Not all students have the equipment so if half the school was working remotely this would be a problem - we wouldn't have enough laptops to lend them. It is very difficult for students to learn properly just using a mobile phone. I have also had to isolate and stream lessons into the classroom. This worked less well due to behavioural issues. Where this happens another teaching assistant or similar needs to be paid to be in the room and ensure the students are on task. Basically it takes time and money to set these things up properly and there is another round of real term cuts coming, plus wage cuts which won't help.

Lbc news today reporting that the army will be deployed to test the children in secondary schools.

Home testing every Monday morning might be another option? I'm not sure why they are insistent on doing it in school when they have said that most secondary children will be able to do their own test - any that needed support using the test would probably much rather have that from their parents anyway. My son will have travelled on a packed bus and mingled with at least 30 people by the end of registration.

Deep cleaning is great but also remember all the cleaning in the world won't stop infected breath, infecting a room.

Robert halfon my goodness what an absolute prat.

Thank you Peter, agree maybe it's to make sure they do do the test?. I certainly know a few who couldn't care less about the virus and wouldn't bother.
But logistically in terms of the virus that would make far more sense.

It's an epidemic.

@TheUnwindingCableCar
Agree
No rules or measures will ever work if no one follows anything.
Tier 4. Play dates, Christmas gatherings, international travel, you name it. They.Just.Don’t.Care.

Take me back

I remember scary nuclear films and hiding under tables when I was little. We have nothing of note at all about this pandemic.. Wishy washy weak ads every now and then?
There needs to be hard hitting public info drive... The teens I'm with just hear white noise now re the virus.

They don't get it or understand it. Where are the hard hitting public info films?

In the span of a long learning life is 6 weeks so bad?

Is it just six weeks though?

My one year 10 son has not been in school for 42 days since Sept, my other year 10 20 days, due to high cases of Covid at their respective secondaries.

This is in addition to the initial March to July lockdown.

Remote learning was a mixed bag during lockdown and in my one son's first two out of six self isolations from school, we had days without any lessons whatsoever, before Ofsted guidelines re remote learning were introduced.

My year 10s have actually missed months of in-school learning in a GCSE year, not just six weeks. There is simply no time to catch up.

A seemingly endless cycle of self isolations have now dominated my home for months and while I do believe that a temporary closure is the lesser of two evils for US, the missed education in school is not minimal, sadly.