SCHOOLS: How could we do it better??

[SnowGnome]

The debate on schools reopening is getting pretty heated, we know two clear and opposing considerations.

1. School is the best place for children to be

2. Not closing schools will accelerate spread, putting families and staff at risk of short term illness, long term illness and death. It also means that tens of thousands will see bubbles closing with cases in Tier 4 areas anyway, removing all provision for key-worker and vulnerable children.

Neither of these considerations is really up for debate, they’re both obvious. The fury seems to be over whether one is more important than the other. But surely that’s the wrong question to be asking and both points matter.

The problem is that the solutions proposed are equally divided: close schools or don’t close them

There have to be better solutions, so what are your ideas, and how would other people’s suggestions affect you? We all really seem to want the same thing here which is as much time in school as possible, but without risking spread. I’ll put a couple of suggestions in next post.

If you’ve come on here to say “it doesn’t spread in schools, children don’t get ill from it, we never had any in our bubble last term blah blah” this isn’t the thread for you. Find somewhere else. This thread is about trying to find a better way through, not being dogmatically tied to one of two completely incompatible points of view.

So we can’t close schools, we can’t overrun hospitals, we can’t have online learning because it’s ineffective and we can’t move term dates. Well bad news - at least one of these things is probably going to happen.

Rotas and masks would have helped in September. I don’t think they will be enough now. I have to say though, I didn’t think tier 3 plus schools open would bring cases down and it did. I’ll be very happy to be wrong if a combination of mass testing, masks and rotas kept R below 1. However, from what I understand from the Imperial model, is thought we’d need both primaries and secondaries fully shut to do that (not that they couldn’t be wrong, too).

If you take Covid and Brexit together, there’s barely a single industry left in the country that hasn't had to sort its mess out by itself.
It’s not a race to the bottom. Besides, your thread is about schools specifically so a bit harsh to call people out for not talking about other industries.
Advanced search me and you’ll see I have supported many other industries in other threads.
The fact is, on this thread about schools, the last few pages of ‘solutions’ from posters have been focusing on teachers solely providing the fix and not the government or other similar related agency.

I didn’t think tier 3 plus schools open would bring cases down and it did.

It didn’t though. Cases in primary and secondary children continued to rise during that period. It was closing the hospitality industry (and others) and more working from home that brought the R rate to down just below 1. Imagine how low it could have been if schools closed as well?
(As a side note, I am against schools closing and prior to knowing about this new strain, I was very happy schools largely stayed open if they could. I’m just pointing out that not closing schools meant that the R rate didn’t go down far enough to counter the balance of closing down entire industries such as hospitality and the arts etc)

There are always winners and losers in life. Education is no different. You always have children who succeed in education and those that are left behind. If it necessary to shut schools so be it. The government would only do it as a last resort as clearly, since September, education has been prioritised. Only have to look abroad to the poorer nations to see the struggles children and parents go through to get an education, day in day out, year after year, miles they walk, studying by candlelight etc If parents and their children want to succeed they will.

I wasn’t calling you out @ChloeDecker, it was a reflection on the situation. Please don’t be defensive, that’s not what this thread is about.

Your point about teachers being asked to fix everything though is an interesting one. I think all of us can understand why teachers would feel that pressure given the lack of leadership. Without wanting to defend the govt though (as I wouldn’t have started this if they’d done a good job), they’re stuck between a rock and a hard place as if they try to intervene too much they’ll be accused of meddling and not recognising local considerations, too little and then they’re seen to be abandoning schools.

Again as always I think the solution is somewhere in between, respecting the fact that schools know their pupils best but giving them the framework, resources and leadership to achieve the outcomes we all want.

What solutions do you think could be put forward in respect of schools / education that wouldn’t depend on teachers having to deliver them? It’s definitely an interesting way to open up the conversation.

@Noellodee

So we can’t close schools, we can’t overrun hospitals, we can’t have online learning because it’s ineffective and we can’t move term dates. Well bad news - at least one of these things is probably going to happen.

Rotas and masks would have helped in September. I don’t think they will be enough now. I have to say though, I didn’t think tier 3 plus schools open would bring cases down and it did. I’ll be very happy to be wrong if a combination of mass testing, masks and rotas kept R below 1. However, from what I understand from the Imperial model, is thought we’d need both primaries and secondaries fully shut to do that (not that they couldn’t be wrong, too).

Teachers cannot be made to pay the price of the government's inadequacies (again) by losing our holidays. We have been shouting about this disaster in the making since the summer. It could have been prevented if our voices hadn't been ignored.

We have been gaslighted for too long. Our mental health has suffered due to the risks we take that are apparently non-risks because they're taken within school walls. The goodwill has gone.

I feel that this needs repeating again. Teachers get paid for 1265 hours ‘directed time’ across 195 days. The summer holidays are effectively unpaid for them. They receive about 85% of what they’d be paid if school holidays weren’t in place.

To put it into perspective, a close friend of mine works as a nurse on a respiratory ward. She accumulated a lot of cancelled AL last spring, which she then took this summer to spend time with her children. No question of her not taking it, she was advised to do so before it all kicked off again.

I’m all for ‘helping out’ and worked Feb to August with no break, including evenings and weekend work as normal. Our school were praised for their home learning offer, before anyone starts wittering about Twinkl worksheets. I begged and traded childcare for my toddler so I could do KW cover over half terms and holidays. Luckily extra nursery days were available, though at a hefty cost. In return, the government have treated us with utter contempt. Until they are willing to fund safety measures in schools and EY settings like every other sodding profession, and stop using their media cronies to slag us off, I am NOT paying £800 extra in childcare to work unpaid for three extra weeks.

Nurses and teachers have been utterly mugged off for years, I won’t be surprised if goodwill runs out very very soon.

Lots of really good ideas on here.

Would love to have half in and livestream to those at home, but our internet at (rural) school is so poor: there's been more than one occasion where we've tried to have two laptops running Zoom (social distancing) and one won't maintain the connection. So one of us ends up sitting right behind the Head, peering over her shoulder. It's embarrassing.

I wasn’t calling you out @ChloeDecker, it was a reflection on the situation. Please don’t be defensive, that’s not what this thread is about.

Sorry SnowGnome it just read that way to me. If you read back on my posts on this thread, you will read that I have been very supportive and even complimented you...

Someone mentioned a nasal spray. I’ve actually read lots about this and now use one in a preventative way when out and when I get back to the house. Yes more research needs to be done (but it’s not harmful). It coats the lining of the nose so (theoretically) a virus can’t take hold.

I know this won’t be pursued (much like vitamin d). But imagine if something so simple could protect children and teachers.

Please don’t be defensive, that’s not what this thread is about.

Oh and if you could also call out the posters who have made disparaging comments about teachers on your non-defensive thread, that would be super

@Delatron

Someone mentioned a nasal spray. I’ve actually read lots about this and now use one in a preventative way when out and when I get back to the house. Yes more research needs to be done (but it’s not harmful). It coats the lining of the nose so (theoretically) a virus can’t take hold.

I know this won’t be pursued (much like vitamin d). But imagine if something so simple could protect children and teachers.

Is this First Defence nasal spray? I’ve been using this for years. (Still get colds though!) I’ll have a read on any research carried out. Thank you.

@Delatron

Someone mentioned a nasal spray. I’ve actually read lots about this and now use one in a preventative way when out and when I get back to the house. Yes more research needs to be done (but it’s not harmful). It coats the lining of the nose so (theoretically) a virus can’t take hold.

I know this won’t be pursued (much like vitamin d). But imagine if something so simple could protect children and teachers.

Well this could open up society if it were really feasible.

Oh and if you could also call out the posters who have made disparaging comments about teachers on your non-defensive thread, that would be super grin

PLEASE DONT MAKE DISPARAGING COMMENTS ABOUT TEACHERS ON THIS THREAD, THEY DON’T DESERVE IT AND IT DOESN'T GET US ANYWHERE!

Done . Sorry the thread ran away from me a bit yesterday.

What solutions do you think could be put forward in respect of schools / education that wouldn’t depend on teachers having to deliver them?

Well, firstly, there are other agencies than the government, such as CAMHS, Social Services etc that have practically removed all face to face contact and been very difficult for young people and families to access.

In part of my role as a teacher, it has been frustrating having to ‘pick up the pieces’ of this last term without these agencies’ support.

Many children and young people who have been struggling to catch up due mental health and/or their home situation, would have (and still would if these agencies will changed their approach next term) made better progress this last term as a result.

Thus negating some of the need to have extra time in the summer. The point being is that unless their emotional and physical needs are met between now and then, then their academic needs won’t be catered for either, just because they have more learning in the summer.

When I mean a lot of this has been left to teachers’ sole responsibility, it’s the many agencies who normally work alongside schools that have cut to the bone and largely left the pandemic ‘clean up’ to us.

I wish schools could focus on the education part and not on the childcare part (wraparound care has been non-existent in my London Borough and has affected my ability to physically be in my school more, to collect my child) or the health of a child on schools’ own shoulders.

The disadvantage gap could close much quicker if these measures and agencies got more funding and went more face to face.

OP I asked if you were a teacher because you didn't really reply to or acknowledge the comments where you positioned yourself as opposed to union actions. Any practicing teachers will tell you the unions have not done any of the things you said in your previous post.

I think agreeing with the prospect of taking away teacher leave of absence is beginning to position you in a debate that up til then was looking neutral.

Look again at weird's post and hopefully you can see it removes teacher leave .

Thank you SnowGnome

Think you deserve this this morning

100% agree with chloe and would add that is not a schol issue. schools have been running around plugging gaps for at least 10 years now and actually spent huge chunks of staffing budget on employing non teaching staff to plug these gaps.

But, in general, thanks for the thread which has been civilised.

scumble, it's not just you. Our internet can't cope in a 1600 student secondary school!! If the government has some year groups in schol and some out being remotely taught form teachers in the school building, our wifi will fall over completely. Not that my home internet can cope.

@Piggyinblankets I lost track of the thread yesterday because a relative died of Covid sadly (that’s not meant to elicit a response).

With regards to the unions, I do think that the relationship between unions and the govt (for which both are responsible) has been to the detriment of schools and students during this crisis. For either to try to suggest their objectives in these circumstances are not political is disingenuous, there’s no trust between them at all (and I accept that’s partly because of the way unions are portrayed by govt). But really that should be for another thread.

With regards to leave, I can see the point but likewise as a pp said above, the problem is we have to have at least one of these (many and often unpopular) options, doing nothing just isn’t an option anymore. That said, I really don’t think that they’ll change holiday dates. It’s probably an added layer of complexity they just don’t want... not least because come summer the govt will want everyone out spending as much money as is physically possible!!

@ChloeDecker I’m on it

Will also take time to read your reply shortly - I have to run but will be back

ChloeDecker - did cases rise in schools in areas where the new strain was not present? I know in my area (Humber) cases plummeted all round once we were placed in Tier 3. We were very high under the old strain, but regionally have very few cases of the new strain. I was posting about how horrendously my school was affected at the beginning of October, but actually, they dropped dramatically once we were placed in Tier 3.

I think this illustrates the enormous difference between the new strain and the old one. The two situations cannot be compared easily. Its why I was campaigning for rotas and masks all the way up to mid-December, but am now all for temporary closures (or remote learning) for a good few weeks at least.

@SaltyAF I’m just saying it’s an area that needs more research as it is promising. Not that it’s the answer to this whole thing. Probably similar to hand washing and mask wearing. It may reduce incidence of spread.

It won’t be researched though. I’ll continue to use it and my First Defence. Expert on 5Live recommends using First Defence before going on public transport or flights. I just think we need to study these things. Cheap and quick way of potentially reducing spread. Too late now though I guess.