SCHOOLS: How could we do it better??

[SnowGnome]

The debate on schools reopening is getting pretty heated, we know two clear and opposing considerations.

1. School is the best place for children to be

2. Not closing schools will accelerate spread, putting families and staff at risk of short term illness, long term illness and death. It also means that tens of thousands will see bubbles closing with cases in Tier 4 areas anyway, removing all provision for key-worker and vulnerable children.

Neither of these considerations is really up for debate, they’re both obvious. The fury seems to be over whether one is more important than the other. But surely that’s the wrong question to be asking and both points matter.

The problem is that the solutions proposed are equally divided: close schools or don’t close them

There have to be better solutions, so what are your ideas, and how would other people’s suggestions affect you? We all really seem to want the same thing here which is as much time in school as possible, but without risking spread. I’ll put a couple of suggestions in next post.

If you’ve come on here to say “it doesn’t spread in schools, children don’t get ill from it, we never had any in our bubble last term blah blah” this isn’t the thread for you. Find somewhere else. This thread is about trying to find a better way through, not being dogmatically tied to one of two completely incompatible points of view.

I lost track of the thread yesterday because a relative died of Covid sadly (that’s not meant to elicit a response).

So sorry

So sorry to hear about your relative

I think the other industry that would howl about holiday dates changing is the beleaguered holiday industry.

I was talking about national results of the last England based lockdown Nellodee and you make a very good point about the new strain which we now know was probably prevalent around this point.

It certainly means that the horse has boulted there and what would have been very good measures in schools before, may well not be now.

On the subject of unions : NEU contains NUT and ATL. ATL were always very moderate, so much so that they opposed any industrial action and attracted largely non Labour voting teachers in home counties : they had such a softie reputation I couldn't bring myself to join them (unofficial motto : 'we never strike') . Most members of NEU I know are ex ATL and very soft in their views. NASUWT always seen as more moderate. ASCL and NAHT are usually very biddable (often to the detriment of workload of classroom teachers) so if they are cross something is up. The only people gov listen to are CEOs of MATs and heads of free schools.

The unions wrote a joint letter to HM Gov recently and my union has written multiple times to Gavin. He does not reply. This demonization of unions and the positioning of the narrative of various unions (including the BMA and nursing, police and firefighter unions) as being hardline has been going on since Thatcher.

The unions did not even know there was a meeting yesterday. Gove , on telly, said the gov had spoken to headteachers. A call out on Twitter found not one single head that had been spoken with. Today the press name Steve Chalk , a CEO of a large MAT, as the 'head' they seem to have listened to.

As a currently practising classroom teacher, I have never disagreed with anything my union has actually said throughout this whole sorry affair. I have, however found local and regional reps about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

@ChloeDecker

I was talking about national results of the last England based lockdown Nellodee and you make a very good point about the new strain which we now know was probably prevalent around this point.

It certainly means that the horse has boulted there and what would have been very good measures in schools before, may well not be now.

I think this is the case - I'm sorry I'm arguing against rotas and masks etc, I think they would have been very effective previously. I'm a big proponent of smaller groups and think that it would help hugely to see the kids frequently so we can cajole them into actually doing something whilst at home.

I think we may still go this route, since we have a "too little, too late" kind of government on our hands, but I don't think it will be very effective if we do. I think the vast majority of kids need to be at home to bring cases down. I think teachers could maybe still be schools teaching, though, as the tech infrastructure is there and they're fairly safe places without kids in them.

Anyway - hopefully we will all be put out of our waiting misery (and plunged into an all new "those fucking idiots have messed up again!" misery) this afternoon.

I'm sorry to hear about your relative, SnowGnome.

I think blaming the teaching unions for how they have been treated by the government is totally, totally ignorant.

Unions are paid to stand up for their workers, it's what our subs are for. This will obviously put them on a collision course with a government with no regard for health and safety. They cannot be blamed for that.

The government, on the other hand, spent the entire summer waging a fake war on the unions. In all the press they painted the unions as being obstructive and unreasonable. That the unions were holding all the power and threatening to close schools and issuing unreasonable demands.

Among all this were baffled teachers who hadn't a clue what the government were going on about. How could unions close schools without telling teachers? There has never been a ballot for strike action in England, and unions report no appetite for striking.

I had so many conversation with my parents who were telling me that teachers weren't allowed by the unions to do this, that or the other. They were genuinely surprised to find out that, despite being a union member, I was doing exactly those things. Live lessons. Phoning pupils. Marking work. As were all my colleagues and teaching friends across the country. It has taken months to convince them that what they have read in the papers about the teaching unions is just bollocks.

And you still see it on here. 'Unions are threatening to close schools'. How, exactly? They have NO POWER. Do you think if they had any power we'd be in the position we are in? No masks, no social distancing, rampant covid?

The government has used 'the unions' as an enemy to be defeated. To give them triumphant headlines. What they are really defeating is any relationship between them and the education workforce. The government have managed to unite them all against them. Headteachers. Governors. The Church of England Education Authority. All the teaching unions. The Independent Schools Council. Even Katharine Birbalsingh. This is unprecedented.

The government has completely lost the goodwill of a large workforce that relies on goodwill. This will have long term consequences.

Someone mentioned parallel online/f2f option, which I'd like to reflect to.

I've done a paper (kind of) on this a few years back and in September. It has many downfalls and I wouldn't suggest to any random teacher to try it just off the bat. Not saying many things can't be overcome, but it takes time/effort/money to do it properly

Let's assume that you have 15 kids f2f and 15 online.
Technology

1. how do you see the 15 online? Small monitor at the desk?

How will you see if one of them wants to ask a question? What do they see? This is important: many teachers use non verbal comms to convey points unknowingly. It's natural. But in this setting having the smartboard/presentation/slides on the screen and not seeing the teacher is hard. Online kids don't see where the teacher is pointing for example. How do you hear them? How many seconds is the lag? You always need to be mindful of the lag and pause more frequently. How will they hear you and the rest of the class? In the UK many sec subjects are taught in a discussion type manner. This means you need to have microphone(s) that cover the whole classroom. How will it be recorded/shared? How will resources be handed out?

Ideal: have a big tv screen on the wall where you can see all online pupils in their small boxes. This should be positioned so that they are somewhat in line with the f2f kids. Have microphone coverage of the whole room.
There are solutions where cameras are covering whole room, move with speaker, etc. but they are expensive and apart from private non-ed sector I have not seen them. (I did a week long workshop as a facilitator in one of these settings it was really like having the others in the room :) and broadband was truly that, not in the uk though)

Pedagogy
Quite different.
Eg. If small group work is needed you have to assign online/offline kids into the group. Make sure the group has a laptop/tablet so not the whole class sees what going on. You have to create breakout rooms in the conference software to accommodate. If they need to hand in things it is quite good if they can send it to printer instantly.

And this is just one example. I think teachers know this part the best.

Organization
This could be the easiest, but I found this to be very problematic. Teachers are not used to sharing in advance. Offline kids often need/would benefit from having insight into what's coming up. Knowing to what extent is based on cohort and teacher needs to find the right balance. (I think in both settings this would be better).
It would be great if teachers/schools would utilize (any) CALENDARS. Chuck in the timetable with links, etc. Only needs to be done once. Maybe twice if week A/B.
But it helps create a very similar organizational structure to what they have in school. And if we drop them in without preparation that is important.
Be consistent when assigning tasks/hw. Always set a due date or be fine if they hand it in at 23.59.
Use Gclass/Teams/other properly. Content needs to be organized by topic, not by class. Normally content on the teacher side is organized by when it will be taught (class timing/lesson plan). But for example this leads to having scattered info pieces across many months littered with other info. Yes, kids could download and organize on their computer in folders, but they are not used to that. So either teach them, or organize it for them.
Consistency in marking and feedback. This is very annoying from the kid's perspective: they hand in something and have no idea when and if they will get marks/feedback. Because of the culture of peer marking in class it is important to set expectations. What I see is that online kids are excluded from peer marking in class and often have less feedback.

In general - I'm guessing no news here - online works best for lecture type of teaching with current setups. Even the private schools the facilities are not there.

So when we talk about blended learning - and I'm a big advocate- it is really important to have a consistently thought through approach which addresses not only topic coverage from teacher to pupil, but both p--> t and feedback loops as well as structuring information.

I don't think that atm most teachers are up for this. It needs a paradigm shift and they are too tired, too fed up with constant change. This would have needed to be done in summer. On another note: why should they be familiar with it? It's not something that is in the normal mindset of any teacher previously.
And also there should be a best practices/framework so that each school/teacher doesn't have to reinvent the wheel or implement sub par solutions because they don't know better.

Sorry noble, I know that was a serious (and very splendid) post but even Katherine Birbalsingh made me spit my tea out

The government has completely lost the goodwill of a large workforce that relies on goodwill.

It's an interesting how weak the teachers are when it comes to standing up for themselves. I'm guessing mostly because they are kind people in general who want to help/nurture. I think unions should be the hard shield that protects these people from gov's abuse (not the right word, but I can't think of a better one)

@Piggyinblankets

Sorry noble, I know that was a serious (and very splendid) post but even Katherine Birbalsingh made me spit my tea out

We are truly in the end times if they've lost her.

I don’t see how rotas would do anything to protect primary school staff, especially in KS1.

There might be more space for the children to distance from each other, but all those exact same children will still want to give their teacher a hug, hold their hand, need help with something on their clothing etc etc. The behaviour of small children doesn’t change just because there are fewer of them in the classroom.

@NailsNeedDoing

I don’t see how rotas would do anything to protect primary school staff, especially in KS1.

There might be more space for the children to distance from each other, but all those exact same children will still want to give their teacher a hug, hold their hand, need help with something on their clothing etc etc. The behaviour of small children doesn’t change just because there are fewer of them in the classroom.

I guess it just feels like a safer option than all in at the same time which is current stance-one week on/off so teacher is exposed to half the number, there's a bigger space. I've heard of schools that for example could spread classes more with use of community buildings etc but were instructed not to as it wouldn't be equal across the board. That's from mumsnet so not sure if true or not! If it's true then that is a bonkers race to the bottom. I think zoom classes can be difficult for younger kids in primaries, but if the kids are taught the same things in class (so that teacher in effect teaches concept twice), with home learning for other week, could that work?

Masks in the classroom for all children from age 6 (as well as teachers of course).

So many other countries do it - are our kids less able than theirs?

My friend's son in the US wears one all day, he is 5, his schooling has been considerably less interrupted than ours.

Even social distancing doesn't help THAT much if you're sitting in a small space without masks for hours because aerosol transmission is really, seemingly. Masks are needed for all who can - even at 50% doing it the reduction in transmission would be huge.

Wow. I've just googled Katherine Birbslsingh's Twitter feed and she's criticised the government, specifically Gove several times over the last few days.

Who said that 2020 couldn't throw any more curved balls, eh?

Birbalsingh - sorry typo.

@IloveJKRowling

Masks in the classroom for all children from age 6 (as well as teachers of course).

So many other countries do it - are our kids less able than theirs?

My friend's son in the US wears one all day, he is 5, his schooling has been considerably less interrupted than ours.

Even social distancing doesn't help THAT much if you're sitting in a small space without masks for hours because aerosol transmission is really, seemingly. Masks are needed for all who can - even at 50% doing it the reduction in transmission would be huge.

Agreed