SCHOOLS: How could we do it better??

[SnowGnome]

The debate on schools reopening is getting pretty heated, we know two clear and opposing considerations.

1. School is the best place for children to be

2. Not closing schools will accelerate spread, putting families and staff at risk of short term illness, long term illness and death. It also means that tens of thousands will see bubbles closing with cases in Tier 4 areas anyway, removing all provision for key-worker and vulnerable children.

Neither of these considerations is really up for debate, they’re both obvious. The fury seems to be over whether one is more important than the other. But surely that’s the wrong question to be asking and both points matter.

The problem is that the solutions proposed are equally divided: close schools or don’t close them

There have to be better solutions, so what are your ideas, and how would other people’s suggestions affect you? We all really seem to want the same thing here which is as much time in school as possible, but without risking spread. I’ll put a couple of suggestions in next post.

If you’ve come on here to say “it doesn’t spread in schools, children don’t get ill from it, we never had any in our bubble last term blah blah” this isn’t the thread for you. Find somewhere else. This thread is about trying to find a better way through, not being dogmatically tied to one of two completely incompatible points of view.

I think it'd probably help if bubbles were actually bubbles and not whole year groups! Was a little shocked to find that my daughter was still mixing classes in the afternoon rather than staying in a class bubble

Children need to be in school

Teachers need to teach

If that's virtually then after 9 months of nothingness there ought to be a proper online curriculum in place

Teachers need to get vaccinated if they so wish

We need to all get back to normal and live with this bloody virus and stop hiding behind it

@FippertyGibbett

If the Oxford jab is approved soon 🤞🏻 I say we get into high schools immediately and jab staff and pupils. The vaccination teams already going into schools are best placed to do it, and could suspend the current work to fulfil it.

1. Efficacy of the AZ jab is very questionable.
2. vacc teams already going into school? What do you mean? For hpv or flu or specific to covid?
3. No vacc has been tested/approved for u18

@iamusuallybeingunreasonable

Children need to be in school

Teachers need to teach

If that's virtually then after 9 months of nothingness there ought to be a proper online curriculum in place

Teachers need to get vaccinated if they so wish

We need to all get back to normal and live with this bloody virus and stop hiding behind it

Key either children were in school the whole time and many teachers worked throughout and through the holidays. The other children were rotated from June onwards. I do feel that the right wing press are doing a great job of vilifying teachers and staff when they have worked hard during this pandemic and done their best. Not that they want to hear this. It's all ' lazy teachers' etc etc. They didn't choose to close up during lockdown 1 either , that was a government decision. If they are worried about going back without adequate provisions in place to do the testing required then I can't say I blame them. I'm not a teacher btw, I just know a few TAs. They carry on but they are concerned.

Why has there been "nine months of nothingness" at your dc school, @iamusuallybeingunreasonable? That seems very odd. Schools were closed to most pupils in the first lockdown, but did you not send them back in August/September?

September to December has been a learning curve, with very young children not really catching up on where they should be and still a lot of home work to do plus frequent bubble closures - when to be frank, my work is so busy because of Covid, I have no spare time for - so yes, 6 months were lost on the summer, but the last three have hardly been a picnic

[quote SnowGnome]@phlebasconsidered I agree, I don’t think there is sufficient justification for differentiating between primary and secondary at all now we’ve reached this stage.

@itsgettingweird yes good points. I don’t think the unions have helped themselves or their members at all. By sticking to such an adversary line they’ve forced a government who does not like to consult into a corner, making it harder than ever for them to change their mind as they know they’ll be accused of more u-turns.[/quote]
I don't think the unions have been the problem at all.

The problem was when they ask to consult with government they were told in no uncertain terms to fuck off.

This is one of the issues with Tory government. They don't support unions - unions are a labour thing and so they are an easy target for a Tory government in power.

Unions only ever wanted and still want sacred opening. The thing everyone wants.

But government have decided to keep fighting a fight of wanting them closed. They can't differentiate (or are refusing to) between open on smaller scale and safe and closed.

They only see open as usual or closed fully.

And of course they need to void a blended learning approach with some home learning to continue to cover up for the fact they still haven't delivered a good percentage of the promised laptops they audited for last May. Which would allow this approach to work better without a class divide.

where they should be. Who decides?

I will be flamed, fine
But I need to point out that it was only max 4 months in the summer term, not 6. And tbf even less because of easter and half term holidays. So make it 3 months.

@Whyarewehardofthinking you talk a lot of sense.

Secondary schools should move to remote learning, perhaps with 1 day per week per year group in school for practical subjects. DS’s (private) school taught a full timetable throughout lockdown and they ended up ahead of the syllabus for most year groups. Online learning isn’t as much fun, but necessary. The government should be funding laptops and internet dongles for families who cant afford to buy them. This pays off in the long term because it creates a generation with good digital skills.

"Not to test. To provide remote support. Helplines and webinars. Whoop de do."

At first I thought the army was being sent in to actually help test the children, then I realized that it was all going to be through the phone and online. How does that help? Maybe the virus will run off screaming when they see men and women in military uniform ha ha

Remote learning for all, vaccinate the over 16s and expedite the vaccination out to the rest of the population as fast as is possible.

Ask nurseries and childminders if they want to extend their provision for key worker childcare and make the criteria very strict. Optional so the staff can decide if they want to take the risk. School staff can then teach remotely so little lost learning bar practical elements.

How does it help? It generates headlines that the military will be involved so the general public think it's sorted and not realise just what a fucked-up bonkers plan it is.

Then schools will be blamed when it goes to shit.

@noblegiraffe

How does it help? It generates headlines that the military will be involved so the general public think it's sorted and not realise just what a fucked-up bonkers plan it is.

Then schools will be blamed when it goes to shit.

Totally agree. It's just so we will think it's all sorted. Not the truth.

@starray

"Not to test. To provide remote support. Helplines and webinars. Whoop de do."

At first I thought the army was being sent in to actually help test the children, then I realized that it was all going to be through the phone and online. How does that help? Maybe the virus will run off screaming when they see men and women in military uniform ha ha

Surely it makes more sense to have healthcare professionals or those with experience in testing on the phone to offer support and advice? I'm not criticising the army, i'm sure they do a great job, but this isn't really their area of expertise.

They should bring forward the Easter & summer holidays and re-distribute the school hours differently from Feb half term until August. Perhaps longer days too. Instead of faffing about with remote learning just let the kids have a few weeks holiday in Jan instead of longer break in July/August.

"Vulnerable children need to be in school everyday but not necessarily all day IMO. 8-11, decent clean then 12.30-3.30 sessions."

This absolutely wouldn't work for children in special schools many of whom travel long distances to school. Although they should be in full time since many need the routine and cannot learn remotely.

@TheSunIsStillShining

I will be flamed, fine But I need to point out that it was only max 4 months in the summer term, not 6. And tbf even less because of easter and half term holidays. So make it 3 months.

Yes we'll, when you work in the private sector and don't get every school Holiday off, you have to send your school age children to childcare provision - which was also shut, so flame away as it was 6 months

@TeenTitan007

They should bring forward the Easter & summer holidays and re-distribute the school hours differently from Feb half term until August. Perhaps longer days too. Instead of faffing about with remote learning just let the kids have a few weeks holiday in Jan instead of longer break in July/August.

I am not sure how this would work for GCSE and A Level exams.

Some content is still to be covered and revised before exams in May. The exams then need to be marked by teachers across the country who need time to do so before August. The results then need to be awarded during August and places at sixth forms and universities to be allocated before the start of September.

@iamusuallybeingunreasonable

Children need to be in school

Teachers need to teach

If that's virtually then after 9 months of nothingness there ought to be a proper online curriculum in place

Teachers need to get vaccinated if they so wish

We need to all get back to normal and live with this bloody virus and stop hiding behind it

I mean what a massive over simplification. Do you know where teachers are on the vaccine list? Fucking nowhere.

Schools were 'closed' for less than four months. That they provided 'nothing' in that time is ludicrous bullshit.

If you have a problem with your own DC's school, take it up with them.

Most people don't 'get every school holiday off' yet don't count school holidays as a time when their children should have been receiving schooling.

The most children were out of school earlier this year was 23 March - third week in July, with three weeks of that being Easter/half term holidays and another Bank Holiday (during which schools were open for keyworker and vulnerable children).

So three months out due to school closures is correct, although of course many children had weeks off in the autumn term due to a lack of mitigation measures causing the virus to rip through schools.

Typical teacher response, a profession who can put no foot wrong, I'm not arguing with a stranger online about what service we received, and we did receive it, and I know I'm not alone - as a profession you seem to be totally blind to the fact that some schools were shite.

In any other profession said teachers would have been fired, but oh no, Bella t the protected species that is the teacher.

I can only speak about our local primary who did all they could and had around 80 key worker children in the entire lockdown period. The secondary schools were the same.
It's sad that many were not as good.

Get year 11 and 13s in as planned to do their mocks from 4/1/21 for 2 weeks. During this time and as soon as possible after, get them and all secondary school staff vaccinated.

Everyone else 11-18 learning from home until they can also be vaccinated.

Cancel bloody GCSEs and mocks.

From a humanitarian POV I'm glad that elderly people in care homes are getting vaccinated, but practically it's bonkers that elderly are being prioritised against the board.

It's so much easier for them to self-isolate as no need to attend work or education, whilst those who will keep the country going economically and rebuild going forward are at the back of the queue.

Of course, the older generations are much more likely to vote Tory in the next election...