SCHOOLS: How could we do it better??

[SnowGnome]

The debate on schools reopening is getting pretty heated, we know two clear and opposing considerations.

1. School is the best place for children to be

2. Not closing schools will accelerate spread, putting families and staff at risk of short term illness, long term illness and death. It also means that tens of thousands will see bubbles closing with cases in Tier 4 areas anyway, removing all provision for key-worker and vulnerable children.

Neither of these considerations is really up for debate, they’re both obvious. The fury seems to be over whether one is more important than the other. But surely that’s the wrong question to be asking and both points matter.

The problem is that the solutions proposed are equally divided: close schools or don’t close them

There have to be better solutions, so what are your ideas, and how would other people’s suggestions affect you? We all really seem to want the same thing here which is as much time in school as possible, but without risking spread. I’ll put a couple of suggestions in next post.

If you’ve come on here to say “it doesn’t spread in schools, children don’t get ill from it, we never had any in our bubble last term blah blah” this isn’t the thread for you. Find somewhere else. This thread is about trying to find a better way through, not being dogmatically tied to one of two completely incompatible points of view.

@mrssalvador

Excellent points and I totally agree and it wasn't just heads, it was teacher by teacher and their interpretations.

Staff wearing masks will only protect other people.

You don't protect yourself by wearing a mask, they all need to wear masks

Middle, on line teaching was implemented very successfully by a range of settings in march, from grammars to places with high fsm,sen etc.

It shouldn't be patchy, it should be working well.

The head teacher of tollworth girls school said, working from home is more stable than being in and out etc.

@the80sweregreat

Lbc news today reporting that the army will be deployed to test the children in secondary schools.

Only on the end of a phone, they can only spare 1,500 of them.

Rotas for the pupils - either two days a week or it might be better for secondary a week in and a week off like the FE colleges. Allow head teachers to use other local spaces. Make use of music services/PE providers to give extra teachers especially for the key groups, (lots of qualified teachers there and it would save regular teachers the extra planning and be a really worthwhile experience for those pupils.) And most importantly fund everything properly.
Actually have someone useful at the end of the DfE hotline, having used it, the person followed a script and couldn’t give me any advice on my particular situation and then told me to use my discretion. This is part of the issue with schools doing different things when there is a positive case - there needs to be one consistent message with access to properly trained public health officials.
Consequences for parents not following self isolation.
No consequences for those choosing to keep their children at home.
A real push to make work flexible for those trying to balance children at home and working. Taking the civil service approach where you could ask for special leave to help with childcare homeschooling I think it was up to a day a week - they did this in the last lockdown. If necessary a fund to do that.

Excellent points and I totally agree and it wasn't just heads, it was teacher by teacher and their interpretations.

Yes, you're right. In one school I went to, where I was teaching across different classes / bubbles each week, there were different routines in different classes.

In one class, all children washed hands on arrival, before and after lunch and after playtimes. They were lucky enough to go out to play first, before eating their lunch in the classroom on tables that would were cleaned while they were outside. The windows were also open in this class.

In a different class, the children didn't wash hands on arrival - the first time they washed their hands was after playtime. They also ate their lunch on tables they had been working on all morning as they weren't cleaned until after they had eaten and gone out to play. This class also didn't keep windows or doors open - the TA kept closing them!

We've taught 50:50 rota since Sept (6th form) in an area of England that had highest infection rates last term. Strict bubbles / zones & one way systems in school / masks for students & visors for teachers at all times / lots of cleaning / hand sanitizers everywhere. The impact of isolations on teaching has been minimal compared to that we hear about elsewhere.

We scrutinise searing plans and solate just close classroom contacts of those who test positive and they revert to online sessions. Even when needing to isolate a whole bubble - they would have been remote learning the following week anyway and then isolation is pretty much over before they're due in again. It's not perfect and we do have some students who are struggling with it all / not engaging. However, we're pretty well set up now & have systems in place & everyone knows the expectations & how it works and we know who can access which type of activity so it's not an ad hoc mish mash when isolations are needed. I do have students due to sit external exams in less than 2 weeks and are assuming they will be happening but it's tricky keeping them motivated to revise over Christmas without being sure.

It does make you question all you are doing when students are packed into buses either end of the day, mix outside bubbles out of school and are working every spare moment (including remote learning weeks in a number of cases) in Maccies etc. A close classroom contact seems irrelevant in the face of external contacts & quite a few staff have gotten a bit blasé about it all towards the end of the term. We've yet to see the impact of the new strain but we can only do what we can.

Any of the mitigations proposed on this thread would have helped, and still would.

As would investing in the infrastructure of schools, and in the teaching profession over the last 10 years.

Unfortunately none of these proposals provide immediately lucrative opportunities for Tory donors to make private profit, so our government didn't bother.

I think fines for non attendance in the case of ECV children and family should be stopped.

I also think that there should be regular testing for at least school staff but preferably the children - and in a way that works and also includes primary. The cases are high for primary aged children and they risk spreading it to family.

I personally am not overly bothered about the social distancing inside the classroom thing - it’s impossible to teach a lot of age groups particularly effectively that way.

I think that anything other than “your child is in school full time” is met with a big pushback from parents because of what it means for their childcare which I do understand. It’s hard with a rota because of siblings in different bubbles etc. I’m interested in how other countries manage to close schools for everyone and keep things running. I don’t want that to happen, nor do I feel unsafe. I don’t think schools should need to close.

I want things to be put in place to enable all children to be in school full time without it making numbers rise hugely. At the moment I think we’ve reached a point where we can no longer just use “kids need to be in school” as a way of rejecting any worries about what impact schools, as they are, will have on the NHS.

Money for cleaning and masks.
Not prioritise education of keyworker children - all matter.
Cancel gcsE’s

@PandemicPavolova unfortunately online teaching was non existent for my then Y12 child during March - July, I suspect because they had already made the decision to base AS grades on work prior to March. This is a ‘good’ state school.

And because online teaching does not work for practical subjects such as Textiles, Product Design, Photography etc who need access to kit only available in schools.

Together with self isolating my DS has missed months of schooling. Sadly I feel a way forward for these children needs to be considered.

No no no not tear 7 learning online, why do people all of a sudden think year 7 aged children can be left at home all day whilst their parents work?
Thankfully my children's secondary school have been sensible and ensured that this year is in school the majority of the time.

They need to make it a lot easier (with better remote learning and no fines) for staff, children and families who are medically vulnerable to stay home.

the army will be deployed to test the children in secondary schools.

I heard... Army Down the phone line providing advice. Very unlikely they will be physically at or even near the actual schools.

If it hasn't already been pointed out, @Nobelgiraffe has repeatedly and rigourously set out the measures that could be taken to make schools safer since summer. She has been roundly derided.

Had measures been out in place on September, we would be ready to go on January. As it stands, I imagine we will still have to carry on just as we are, then things will fall apart as staff become ill. I will repeat what I've said before: I will be taking my time to recover. I won't be streaming lessons while I'm unwell.

@yeOldeTrout

the army will be deployed to test the children in secondary schools.

I heard... Army Down the phone line providing advice. Very unlikely they will be physically at or even near the actual schools.

Yes, phone calls and webinars. What the fuck is the use in that?

Isn't this typical then?
I heard that ' the army will be helping out with testing'
I come on here and get the truth ., it's just on the phone!
Why won't the papers print the truth then ?
Because they want schools open at any cost it seems.

pandemic I remember hiding under tables too!! Grew up next to nuclear submarine base.

Something needs to be done at the very least to make children take the whole thing seriously. Too many now think they are immune/not affected/above it all/ don't need to SD. Teens refer to their 'bubble' as an excuse to high five, high, shake hands, play fight, socialise out of school. We are breeding a generation of young people with no sense of empathy or social responsibility. Therefore, I conclude we need to somehow enforce a bit of social distancing on them.

We are scared of being tough on kids. God, I sound old.

Disclaimer : I do know not all teens are like this. the ones who are responsible have either had to lower their expectations and standards or are visibly stressed whilst at school.

On another note, so many on here are advocating some form of rota and yet it doesn't even seem up for discussion in the government : why?? It seems now that Gove would rather mess with holidays.

I am secondary; we want, and are massively prepared for, rotas.

Our plan is simple; week in, week out. It gives us space to maintain a full time seperate classroom for each year group for vulnerable and keyworker students so that they can slot back into normal lessons when their year group is in. We can even provide additional spaces for some Year 11, 12 and 13 who may need more time in school if home is disruptive. It means that social areas become year group only and well spaced (which is not posible without a rota due to a lack of space now that the weather is turning).

Students all have Chromebooks. Due to the complete lack of funding from the Government we have also now bought an additional 60 4G internet dongles to give to students when they are at home. They all know how to use Google Classroom, how to upload work, how to collaborate. Departments will work together to produce a mixture of resources (not live but some recorded PPTs and videos to reduce pressure on staff as these take time to prepare) but to give a range of resources for students.

We have an online learning assessment and feedback policy and all staff have been trained agian in using Google Classroom and other onlien resources to make sure students get both teacher feedback and instant feedback using quizzes. They will still get proper feedback during their week in school when the submit work.

Testing with lateral flow is welcome as long as it is in addition to isolating positive cases and contacts in the normal way, not if it is replacing it. My staff are also not testing students; we are pushed to the absolute maximum as it is with constant cover, an extra 4 duties a week and cleaning. We need volunteers to do this.

All of this will reduce the risk of disruption; we can't have a repeat of the Autumn term or we will see even more issues with mental health, more vulnerable students being kept from us (our home visits are up something like 200% is students are 'isolating') and of course we will reduce transmission.

FWIW am in Liverpool, secondary kids tested every week. Doesn't seem to have been overly problematic and perceptually seems to have made a difference (obvs no evidence and mass testing happening simultaneously) in the number of times kids needing to isolate.

Appropriately trained and qualified people should be managing this though. Kids self administer.

bayleaf , I teach a subject that cannot effectively be taught remotely. It's exactly why I favour week in/week out.

The issue is media and government say "closures"

Teacher and unions say "open with measures in place"

Government don't want blended learning and smaller numbers physically in schools each day.

Which is just plain stupid when they said we have a highly transmissible strain now.

Imo we need:

Blended learning for years 7-9
No fines for parents choosing to keep children at home - places kept open until sept 2021
Fines for parents who send in kids who are ill - specifically temps and/or cough.
Nationally provided safe transport to and from secondary schools.
Masks to be worn more through guidance and not if chosen.
Funding actually provided to schools.

But most importantly for head teachers to be given advanced warning of what they have to do rather than this spending all their holidays sorting a mass testing programme without any actual information.

I can honestly only think that the “keep schools open at any cost” approach is simply to try stop complete mismanagement of the situation being exposed by all involved, and reduce the need for another embarrassing u-turn on exams.

There are so many good suggestions on here that would make learning more safe and effective! Why the all or nothing approach? It’s simply a recipe for disaster when the schools collapse because there aren’t enough staff to teach! And services collapse because there aren’t enough childcare places for kids who would otherwise have been catered for in planned closures.

@Ihatemyseleffordoingthis

The tests are only 50% effective.

How will this work against a more virulent strain?

Rotas, including primary. A week in, a week out. I can tell you for a fact if I had 16 children in my classroom every other week, they would make better progress than 32 in every week. My teaching and ability to help every child would be better if I only had 16 to concentrate on.

@BelleSausage - thankfully I am neither a scientist nor in charge of anything. I am simply reflecting on what I have observed. And Liverpool is currently in Tier 2. So I do not think it is entirely unrelated (policitally or epidemiologically we will never know). Also as per my many previous posts, on this thread and others, I feel every effort possible should be made to keep schools safely open (rotas/new spaces/additional teacher recruitment/masks/optional home learning/everything I can't think of), and for all children to be able to access remote learning (meaning providing tech, and data, and indeed good quality content, to allow it). Merely that testing might be part of that.