The logistical issue with closing primary schools...

[Jourdain11]

Just want to say at the start that, in saying this, I do not in any way mean to undermine teachers' and school staffs' right to work in a safe environment. But there is a big logistical issue with the closure of primary schools, assuming that childcare arrangements would also be knocked out.

In the spring, a huge number of people were either wfh or furloughed. That is no longer the case to the same extent. Since the rules/guidance now is to "work from home unless you cannot do your job at home", there are many, many more people who are expected to go into work, at least on a part-time schedule.

Which creates a huge issue in terms of primary-aged children doing remote learning from home. Either you end up with a pretty large number of "key worker" or "unable to learn from home" children going into school (which creates issues for staff in terms of providing in-school staffing and online provision simultaneously, and also slightly defeats the point of the entire exercise); or you have thousands of parents having to resign their jobs, take unpaid leave, beg for time off or whatever (which is clearly very far from ideal). Or you end up with parents simply saying, "I pay taxes for my children to be educated in school and it is their right to receive this education" and sending them in anyway.

Seems the only way around this would be either to have a "short, sharp" shutdown with a (for example) 2-week timelimit, which might be more manageable for both parents and school staff. Or to stay open and increase hygiene measures in PSs, or at least strive to make them equal across all schools.

Thoughts?

None of the options are good, but if the impact on nhs and resultant COVID and non COVID deaths are much worse with schools open, it may be the best of two terrible options.

A lot will depend on the figures and what is emerging about the new variants.

If only we could know what government thinking was on this. You're not wrong.

Secondary schools where children don't need parents home with them should go online. Primary should start a week later & then be blended learning for 2 weeks.

I read an interview with someone from the "reed" recruitment family. Apparently during the 1st lock down recruitment plummeted & companies were very nervous. However during the 2nd lockdown minimal impact. He thought it was because schools stay open.

stayed open.

Sorry primaries should probably be online for first week, then blended for 2 weeks.

I agree. Scotland here and schools are closed until the 18th unless both parents are key workers out of the home. I guess you can use us as guinea pigs. It’s going to be tough for many.

Increase the hygiene levels?
My school still doesn’t have hot running water in all toilets. Social distancing is impractical between staff.

It's not really a great option for parents who end up losing a job because of it, though. And I can imagine that people in this position may begin to feel very bitter, that their livelihoods and their childrens' education is sacrificed for the greater good. It's not a nice place for society to be in.

Or, if you end up with some schools where 60, 70% of the pupils are eligible to go in according to whatever guidelines they devise, that's hardly going to help anyone either!

I honestly think a circuit-breaker / holiday extension type thing is the only non-catastrophe option.

I think whatever the decision it needs to be made now and communicated to both parents and schools. I also think it shouldn’t just be indefinite if they do close, but for a fixed period (for all ages not just primary)

How can we increase hygiene measures for an airborne virus? That spreads via the nose and throat when people speak? Maybe some sort of perspex helmet?

@cherrycola742

Sorry primaries should probably be online for first week, then blended for 2 weeks.

And how do families with no ability to access online learning join in on this?

@StanfordPines

Increase the hygiene levels? My school still doesn’t have hot running water in all toilets. Social distancing is impractical between staff.

But if your school are forced to do all they feasibly can, it's still better than nothing, no?

i think the rest of the public,i.e non parents of primary school kids ,will be shouting very very loudly for them to close!

so many people are losing businesses, jobs,family members and it seems to be stemming from schools continuing to be open.

@PandemicPavolova

How can we increase hygiene measures for an airborne virus? That spreads via the nose and throat when people speak? Maybe some sort of perspex helmet?

Um, masks inside (maybe, I know there are mixed views)? Moving desks? More staggered activities? Yeah, it's not going to be 100% but it is surely better than nothing?

Actually, I think reducing numbers in school by 30-40% would have a big impact on the ability of kids and teachers to socially distance.

But I'm not convinced it would be fair on those not able to go in, as with 60% of kids in, schools wouldn't be able to provide decent online learning.

I don't think (except on mumsnet) anyone is actually talking about long term closures of primary (or secondary) schools as seen in the summer.

I think all that is being proposed is things like staggered starts and possibly rotas- and everyone needs a short term emergency plan for childcare at the moment anyway!

True although the furlough scheme is available to some on the grounds of caring responsibilities.

@DownstairsMixUp

Not sure even two weeks is doable. Single parents? Two parents working within the nhs? Two key worker parents? Both me and my husband are key workers and have to book in advance our annual leave. We'd only be able to do unpaid leave and our employers would not be happy.

I can see that it is very, very difficult, but if it's definitely only 2 weeks, it would hopefully be easier to negotiate (even if employers aren't happy etc.).

I think all that is being proposed is things like staggered starts and possibly rotas- and everyone needs a short term emergency plan for childcare at the moment anyway!

My DC's primary has actually done this all term anyway. It has been an absolute pain in the neck with 3 kids in different year groups tbh, but on the other hand, they didn't have a burst bubble till 2 weeks ago... so maybe it did some good!!

@DownstairsMixUp

Not sure even two weeks is doable. Single parents? Two parents working within the nhs? Two key worker parents? Both me and my husband are key workers and have to book in advance our annual leave. We'd only be able to do unpaid leave and our employers would not be happy.

I mean, every parent needs a plan for if their child has to do 10 days self isolation, surely?

Obviously it is not easy, but if it's a school closure it's marginally (?) easier as you can use childcare from outside your household. So some people will be able to use relatives/paid childcare etc.

@Eccle80

I think whatever the decision it needs to be made now and communicated to both parents and schools. I also think it shouldn’t just be indefinite if they do close, but for a fixed period (for all ages not just primary)

I agree with this. As a teacher, I want schools open as much as possible. I say this as someone who works in a very tech rich school, and if we close to students, I'll be live-streaming my lessons, pretty much as planned from the very next morning. We are prepared for this. But it still won't be as effective, not to mention enjoyable as being in the classroom.

Online learning, while better than nothing, is not a replacement for being in the classroom for many reasons. I'm concerned that this idea that children have been taught online means that allowances won't be made for re-teaching.

In the primary school my DIL teaches at the only positive test they have had this school year was a visiting tutor. No permanent member of staff or pupil have tested positive. Why should they have to shut given the obvious benefits to the pupils of attending? This isn’t in a leafy suburb either but in a relatively poor part of a Southern city currently in tier 4.