The logistical issue with closing primary schools...

[Jourdain11]

Just want to say at the start that, in saying this, I do not in any way mean to undermine teachers' and school staffs' right to work in a safe environment. But there is a big logistical issue with the closure of primary schools, assuming that childcare arrangements would also be knocked out.

In the spring, a huge number of people were either wfh or furloughed. That is no longer the case to the same extent. Since the rules/guidance now is to "work from home unless you cannot do your job at home", there are many, many more people who are expected to go into work, at least on a part-time schedule.

Which creates a huge issue in terms of primary-aged children doing remote learning from home. Either you end up with a pretty large number of "key worker" or "unable to learn from home" children going into school (which creates issues for staff in terms of providing in-school staffing and online provision simultaneously, and also slightly defeats the point of the entire exercise); or you have thousands of parents having to resign their jobs, take unpaid leave, beg for time off or whatever (which is clearly very far from ideal). Or you end up with parents simply saying, "I pay taxes for my children to be educated in school and it is their right to receive this education" and sending them in anyway.

Seems the only way around this would be either to have a "short, sharp" shutdown with a (for example) 2-week timelimit, which might be more manageable for both parents and school staff. Or to stay open and increase hygiene measures in PSs, or at least strive to make them equal across all schools.

Thoughts?

@EttaG

I don't understand why you have no sympathy for others Nobody had any sympathy for me? “We can’t keep your child safe from Covid so he’ll have to stay at home”. “But that’ll mean I can’t work?” “Tough”. “Can I at least have benefits to replace some of the salary I’m losing ?” “Nope”.

But when loads of other people are facing the same scenario of being unable to work due to childcare provision being removed, suddenly there’s an outcry 🙄

Why can’t you apply for jobs that are outside of your partners working hours if you’re not a lone adult household?

The system might not have had any sympathy for you, but that's not to say that ordinary people didn't/haven't.

Exactly.

At a societal level it will be a very bad thing for mothers (& the majority will be mothers) to have to give up or lose their jobs because of school closures.

The system might not have had any sympathy for you, but that's not to say that ordinary people didn't
A child can’t go to school so a mother has to give up her job and stay home so the whole family suffers financially. When it happens to one child and mum it’s tough shit. But when it happens to 5 million children and mums it’s a tragedy. I didn’t see people shouting when it was just me in that situation. They only care when it’s happening to themselves. Well if I have to just cope with it then so do they. If it was tough shit for me then it’s tough shit for them too.

Why can’t you apply for jobs that are outside of your partners working hours
I have got a few hours work in the evenings at the supermarket. It doesn’t replace the lost income from a full time 9-5 professional job.

When it happens to one child and mum it’s tough shit. But when it happens to 5 million children and mums it’s a tragedy. I didn’t see people shouting when it was just me in that situation.

It's because there are 5m voices vs 1 so it's harder to ignore & has a bigger impact, that's the point! It's not that you are less deserving or don't matter. Anyone this is pointless as you are indignant.

There isn’t an answer that will really be nice for anyone, its shit, but there isn’t a lot we can do.

The company my partner works for have been quite proactive and already sorted working hours so if schools do go back late there isn’t a mad rush. So he is able to work from home again and as long as he meets his contractual hours he can essentially work any time.

The company I work for have announced that working hours will not change and parental leave will need to have a minimum of 21 days notice and leave must be in blocks of 7 days, so people can’t just use one or two days a week. Which is really helpful.

I don’t work Fridays so I have managed to arrange for my partner to babysit Monday and Tuesday and a friend in our bubble can do Wednesday and Thursday. Luckily I work four short days, so they ‘only’ need to provide what is essentially school hours childcare, so at least my partner can start work at a decent hour on Monday and Tuesday.

We moved in with my parents over the last lockdown to enable us to work. They are our childcare bubble now, so as long as that can continue we can probably muddle through. Unlike some on this thread though, I can see the issues it will create for other people, in particular women. People practically rubbing their hands together with glee at the thought of going backwards in women’s rights on a parenting site is pretty shit.

@EttaG

The system might not have had any sympathy for you, but that's not to say that ordinary people didn't A child can’t go to school so a mother has to give up her job and stay home so the whole family suffers financially. When it happens to one child and mum it’s tough shit. But when it happens to 5 million children and mums it’s a tragedy. I didn’t see people shouting when it was just me in that situation. They only care when it’s happening to themselves. Well if I have to just cope with it then so do they. If it was tough shit for me then it’s tough shit for them too.

I'm sorry about your situation, but I can't agree that everyone thought 'tough shit'.

There are some of us who have been campaigning and lobbying for safer schools with access for all children for many months.

I'm sorry that we haven't been successful - genuinely, I am. But I don't think we throw up our hands now and say 'there's nothing we can do for women in the workplace full stop''.

Inwonder where the mythbcame from that the government will do anything to keep schools open. The reality is our governments have done as little possible and just keep repeating the mantra schools are safe we will not close them
I am frontline, my dh is haulage but not frontline. I am in school as normal from next Wednesday my kids are out until the 18th luckily, same as first lockdown, parents are willing to take the risk looking after them, parents are from 72 - 80. All home learning will be done at weekend. So I would be furious if ill kids in my class are allowed to stay at school this term, like last, as the risk is becoming too high. Yes my kids will have to do a weeks learning over 2 days but it's not the end of the world. As a society businesses have gone bust, people have lost their jobs and we still refuse to put measures in place to reduce risk in schools (beyond handwashing).

I WISH, that all the parents on treads like this that are pro schools closing will actually go ahead and de register their children. They can go ahead with home schooling and be happy that their children are safely at home wrapped in cotton wool.

In turn, that will leave us parents who want schools open with a less crowded school,

give teachers a chance to reduce their bubble size and helps reduce the spread of the virus. Our children will continue to get the education and social interaction they so desperately need...

Win Win for everyone! Shame nobody actually acts on it... I wonder why.

Because why should anyone have to deregister their child because schools aren't safe Ylvamoon?

Wanting schools to be safer is based on broader social concern, not just concern for your own family. It's very clear that sky rocketing rates in schools have increased community transmission.

Children are entitled to an education, either in school or via HE. Why should they lose that entitlement because some people don't care about their safety, or that of their teachers and the wider community?

and we still refuse to put measures in place to reduce risk in schools (beyond handwashing).

Yes, I really would like to see schools prioritised in a sense other than being last to close. There are so many ways to improve school safety that would benefit everyone!... but it needs real money and resources put behind it.

@Ylvamoon
Not exactly a win for the teachers who are in classrooms with no mitigation, is it? But if ‘you and yours’ are okay. I can understand why etta took her stance. Try to show a bit of empathy.

christinarossetti19 - but the issue is, that you feel that schools are not safe. And maybe it's true for your area.

I think my DC schools are as safe as they can be. We don't mix in the "wider community" in fact we have been pretty isolated from our friends and family.

I don't perceive my children (or any other children) as dangerous.
Of course children are entitled to an education, but it's down to parents how to deliver this. If you feel schools are not safe, please act on this.

No Ylvamoon, it's not how I or anyone else feels*.

The latest data puts secondary school rate infection at 2,500 per 100,000 population and primary at 2,000 per 100,000 population.

Multiples higher than the general population of any area in the country. Multiples higher than the risk that was deemed necessary to 'cancel Christmas' at the 11th hour.

I'm not concerned about my children catching covid, nor them bringing it home as we're not mixing either so won't be involved in spreading it. I am concerned about the rising rates of transmission and fatalities that mixing in schools is contributing to though, and the risk to school staff and how inaccessible schools are to children with disabilities or illnesses because they're such a covid-fest at the moment.

I don't think me taking my children out of school would make an iota of difference to this. Parents and teachers all lobbying the government for safer schools has more of a chance.