The logistical issue with closing primary schools...

[Jourdain11]

Just want to say at the start that, in saying this, I do not in any way mean to undermine teachers' and school staffs' right to work in a safe environment. But there is a big logistical issue with the closure of primary schools, assuming that childcare arrangements would also be knocked out.

In the spring, a huge number of people were either wfh or furloughed. That is no longer the case to the same extent. Since the rules/guidance now is to "work from home unless you cannot do your job at home", there are many, many more people who are expected to go into work, at least on a part-time schedule.

Which creates a huge issue in terms of primary-aged children doing remote learning from home. Either you end up with a pretty large number of "key worker" or "unable to learn from home" children going into school (which creates issues for staff in terms of providing in-school staffing and online provision simultaneously, and also slightly defeats the point of the entire exercise); or you have thousands of parents having to resign their jobs, take unpaid leave, beg for time off or whatever (which is clearly very far from ideal). Or you end up with parents simply saying, "I pay taxes for my children to be educated in school and it is their right to receive this education" and sending them in anyway.

Seems the only way around this would be either to have a "short, sharp" shutdown with a (for example) 2-week timelimit, which might be more manageable for both parents and school staff. Or to stay open and increase hygiene measures in PSs, or at least strive to make them equal across all schools.

Thoughts?

@Stayingin2020. Yes, I wonder how many of those suggesting that parents with young children who can wfh don't need childcare have tried it for more than a day or two. It's "Mummy, Mummy, Mummy", "I want this", "I want that", tantrums and guilt for the whole day. And then, just as you're trying to catch up at night, interrupted sleep, nightmares and repeated night wakings from bored and understimulated children who have had too much screentime and not enough exercise.

I'll only do it again if the government makes it legal to dose children with opium as was done in Victorian times.

@Jourdain11

Teachers can't work from home if they have to go in for keyworker/SEN/vulnerable children. Teachers also can't simultaneously wfh and care for and supervise their primary school age kids!

That will be staffed on a rota basis for KW children whilst the staff at home set work remotely.

why can’t primaries stay open and temporarily have half the class in AM / half PM to ensure continuity in core teaching while social distancing can actually be achieved. Totally appreciate this doesn’t help those who work out the home but surely better than full closure and helps those expected to wfh while being beneficial to children’s education & wellbeing

Half days are no good at all. If you need to go to the office, you need a whole day. No reason they can’t stagger and do half the class in one day and half in another.

Of course it's an issue! If you're a teacher, you can't wfh. If you're a shop worker, a barista, a refuse collector, someone who works in healthcare

You clearly missed the bit where I said there are people who can’t work from home but this is no different to how it was back when schools were closed in March, somehow we all got through it.

Closing schools is the last resort, so if schools are closed your barista is at home as coffee shops are closed too. As are the vast majority of retail workers and teachers. Schools places are available for key workers, your local authority is half shifting refuse workers for safety and your bin collections are reduced. It is also the case that a majority of working adults don’t have children in primary schools. In any organisation there will be a mix of those who do and those who don’t. Every place I’ve worked since DD started school, I’ve been in a pretty small minority. My company has 40 employees, I’m the only one with a child in primary school. Furlough is available for parents of school aged children

Something to consider but not a big issue by any stretch of the imagination.

How can teachers work from home? Schools close to most students but were open all through lockdown to keyworker and vulnerable children (which covers quite a few children in my school).

@Jourdain11
Teachers can’t work if they catch Covid and then ‘key worker’ children will be at home with the rest of the students. There is a reason for wanting to keep children out of classrooms- it isn’t just to cause misery and mayhem.

Yes, I know that if key workers can’t do their jobs, we will all suffer. I think we need to get to grips with that happening.

Furlough is available for parents of school aged children

For some. Many don’t qualify under the way furlough is set up at present.

[quote MessAllOver]@Stayingin2020. Yes, I wonder how many of those suggesting that parents with young children who can wfh don't need childcare have tried it for more than a day or two. It's "Mummy, Mummy, Mummy", "I want this", "I want that", tantrums and guilt for the whole day. And then, just as you're trying to catch up at night, interrupted sleep, nightmares and repeated night wakings from bored and understimulated children who have had too much screentime and not enough exercise.

I'll only do it again if the government makes it legal to dose children with opium as was done in Victorian times.[/quote]
During Lockdown 1, my husband had to wfh as a teacher (except on the two days a week that he was in school for keyworker/vulnerable group). I was having chemo (and would have been working from home 50%, in the workplace 50% otherwise). Our kids were 7, 6 and 4 at the time. It was literally impossible. It was so impossible that we actually had to send them for a "holiday" with their grandparents in an entirely different part of the country. So I get where you're coming from!

Furlough needs to be at the discretion of the employee not the employer.

All employees with primary/nursery age children should be eligible for furlough (one per family) and it shouldn't be open to the employer to refuse furlough unless it can be shown that a school or childcare place would be available for the employee.

I and quite a few of my friends were told last time round by our employers to "do the best you can" but what they actually expected was for us to work as normal, maintain output, cover for absent colleagues and completely neglect our children. I'm not doing that this time.

I'm due to start a very intense job on the 4th Jan.

If the kids are at home (3 at primary age) I seriously think I will have to resign the day I start. When we did it last time it absolutely broke me, and was essentially benign neglect for the children. Hours on a screen, snacks hastily thrown into hands whilst on conference calls, feral bored children, enormously stressed parents.

Secondary schools can do online schooling without constant supervision but for the young ones it should be an absolute last resort.

For us it would be the end of my job, probably the end of my wage earning as I'd be unlikely to find another role.

The uncertainty is awful...wish they'd confirm either way

If only we could know what government thinking was on this. You're not wrong

The government have no thoughts about this I can guarantee.

Let’s look at the numbers.

4.7 million primary school aged children. Let’s say the average family has two kids close in age, so the number of families affected is 2.35 million. 25 percent of families has a stay at home parent. That’s a potential 1.76 million. ONS says that in April, 46% of people were working from home. That leaves just over 800k people. Some of whom will have access to childcare or a school place. Our school had about 40% capacity for key workers. Put that in context of a workforce of nearly 33 million, and no, closing primary schools will not have an impact for the vast majority of working people.

ONS says that in April, 46% of people were working from home.

‘Working from home’ is still working, and is not typically compatible with home-educating primary age children.

@MintyMabel

Let’s look at the numbers.

4.7 million primary school aged children. Let’s say the average family has two kids close in age, so the number of families affected is 2.35 million. 25 percent of families has a stay at home parent. That’s a potential 1.76 million. ONS says that in April, 46% of people were working from home. That leaves just over 800k people. Some of whom will have access to childcare or a school place. Our school had about 40% capacity for key workers. Put that in context of a workforce of nearly 33 million, and no, closing primary schools will not have an impact for the vast majority of working people.

Yes, but if you happen to be one of those working people, it will still have an impact nevertheless!

How can teachers work from home?

Our school did it on a rota basis for those who weren’t vulnerable. Each class teacher was in one day a week, other days they did online classes from home.

Surely we are in the middle of a 2 week circuit breaker for primary schools?
If the school holidays make no difference then what will a term time school closure achieve?

I will have to resign my job if they close. As only I am a keyworker, we will not get a primary keyworker place - but we need my DH’s salary. Ideally we need mine, but it is lower so if have to give up one as no school place mine will go.
Irony is we need all the nhs staff there is, but I will have to resign.

School made it clear they need both parents to be keyworker to get a place.

We have used up all annual leave covering children at home due to isolating as it is.

@IslaMann

Surely we are in the middle of a 2 week circuit breaker for primary schools? If the school holidays make no difference then what will a term time school closure achieve?

A two week ‘circuit breaker’, during which thousands of households will also be allowed to mix for Christmas and thousands of university students have come home?

Hmmm

Yes, but if you happen to be one of those working people, it will still have an impact nevertheless!

Just as every individual Covid death is a person with a family. But as with everything, it is about a collective effort for a collective good.

I have a primary aged child and don’t relish a school closure either, I’m just saying the numbers involved make it a relatively minor issue for the overall workforce. The alternative is to allow the numbers to spiral as they are doing and accept the number of cases and deaths will rise more.

I was speaking to a recruitment agent recently and he said he’s really quite busy with people looking to move jobs because employers have been inflexible through this. He’s seeing companies really up their game in looking after staff because they know it has become an area for competition when hiring.

fedup21
But they've only been allowed to mix for 1 day, and Uni students should have been tested before leaving for the holidays. No greater danger than popping to Tesco I'd suggest.

Every parent who loses their job because of a long school closure is potentially a family in poverty. There are two sides to everything. And I'm not saying that PSs should stay open with no extra measures and at any cost. I'm just trying to think about how it should be done in a more manageable way.

A short closure with a definite end-date is probably the least worst solution.

@IslaMann

fedup21 But they've only been allowed to mix for 1 day, and Uni students should have been tested before leaving for the holidays. No greater danger than popping to Tesco I'd suggest.

It’s still a lot of mixing.

Not all uni students were offered testing-my DC and friends weren’t.

A lockdown with schools closed and nobody being given the all clear to mix households and cross the country for a Xmas piss up, will undoubtedly be more effective.

I think you're right, and if primary schools close again, employers will (unofficially) begin to regard working parents as unreliable. It's one of the worst things you can do for the glass ceiling / gender pay gap.

There are 10 days between Christmas Day - mixing with other families - and schools going back. That’s enough time to ‘quarantine’ without the need to delay schools going back. Use the school holidays as a “circuit breaker”, not term time. It would be madness for parents to allow their children to socialise lots during the next week then have to keep them home once lots catch corona. My children won’t be going near anyone until term restarts and I’ll be really annoyed if school gets delayed because other children have been reckless.

A short closure with a definite end-date is probably the least worst solution

I agree.

Emergency childcare plan. Yes great, so how many times is my employer happy for me to hit the ‘emergency button’? Because we pressed it twice last term do kids having to isolate. Let’s press it again in Jan and however many times they need to isolate next year.. it’s what.. only 1 or 2 months I’ll need off in total.. ta.. and that is shared by a husband, I am not even a single parent doing this on my own.