The logistical issue with closing primary schools...

[Jourdain11]

Just want to say at the start that, in saying this, I do not in any way mean to undermine teachers' and school staffs' right to work in a safe environment. But there is a big logistical issue with the closure of primary schools, assuming that childcare arrangements would also be knocked out.

In the spring, a huge number of people were either wfh or furloughed. That is no longer the case to the same extent. Since the rules/guidance now is to "work from home unless you cannot do your job at home", there are many, many more people who are expected to go into work, at least on a part-time schedule.

Which creates a huge issue in terms of primary-aged children doing remote learning from home. Either you end up with a pretty large number of "key worker" or "unable to learn from home" children going into school (which creates issues for staff in terms of providing in-school staffing and online provision simultaneously, and also slightly defeats the point of the entire exercise); or you have thousands of parents having to resign their jobs, take unpaid leave, beg for time off or whatever (which is clearly very far from ideal). Or you end up with parents simply saying, "I pay taxes for my children to be educated in school and it is their right to receive this education" and sending them in anyway.

Seems the only way around this would be either to have a "short, sharp" shutdown with a (for example) 2-week timelimit, which might be more manageable for both parents and school staff. Or to stay open and increase hygiene measures in PSs, or at least strive to make them equal across all schools.

Thoughts?

What might will help it planning now that the feb half term everywhere should be two weeks, giving us another circuit breaker in 6 weeks (and lockdown everything then). Then it’s only 1 extra week of headache, with notice.

It might not be perfectly timed, but it is likely to be reasonable.

I am lucky to be able to wfh, however wfh with 3 primary aged children nearly broke me. Working with children isn't legal in normal times for good reason. I managed during the first lock down, but it isn't right for me, my employer or my children. My children had to be neglected to allow me to be able to meet obligations to my employer. My children did the minimal school work acceptable as I can't teach 3 different year groups whilst also being on calls/or working. I took the hit working as my husband has a higher pressured job. We didn't use the key worker status we are entitled to as I trying to be fair to those who desperately needed it. However, any further lockdown we will send the kids in as keyworkers. Great to suggest furlough but it wasn't an option and it puts working mums (let's face it) at a huge disadvantage for when the cost cutting measures and redundancies come in next year.

There is no right answer, but closing schools is not the answer for me. Lets hope vaccines are successful.

I managed during the first lock down, but it isn't right for me

Children and schools staff being packed into tiny classrooms, with no additional funding for cleaning/staffing and banned for wearing masks is not right for them either.

There’s lots of stuff going on that shouldn’t be.

The thing is, it's hard for everyone.

Lots of people have lost money during the pandemic due to businesses closing, being on furlough, lockdowns, losing their jobs etc. And it's clear at the end of last term, there were big rises in the number of primary aged children getting ill.

So, a different system is needed. That doesn't have to be a full closure, but it has to be something, and parents need to work with it, rather than arguing against every single mitigation measure schools could put in place!

I think parents also need to be really careful about their children socialising over the next week, as people have said- otherwise, cases will be taken back into schools.

Yeah lockdown in all the school holidays... happy annual leave teachers.. enjoy your, erm.. living room.

@HalfPastThree

I think you're right, and if primary schools close again, employers will (unofficially) begin to regard working parents as unreliable. It's one of the worst things you can do for the glass ceiling / gender pay gap.

This! I was encouraged to push hard, aim high as a woman, went to a crap school then a fantastic university and worked my arse off to get a good career to provide for my kids. It makes me incredibly sad to think how many women in my position will lose all of that.

On these kind of threads, TAs teaching half a class is often mentioned (several pages ago on this thread, granted!). Primary schools do not have one TA per class to facilitate this, not even close. They haven't for years and years. It might sometimes appear that way to parents but often they are assigned to specific children, even if parents are just told they 'work with Y6' or whatever.

I don't think it should be a blanket rule that they stay shut.. Dd school have been extremely good with hygiene etc and have not had a single case or any issues with isolations... There are many many schools that are the same. It would be crazy to force schools to shut that are doing everything to keep them safe.

It should be after a certain amount of cases per 100 students that the school is forced to shut. Or a certain amount of cases within a certain time frame.

Indeed Fedup21.

Schools being open (until they're closed due to staff shortages) and children being in school (until they have to SI do to +cases) relies on school staff being in a highly unsafe working environment. One with no social distancing, no compulsory masks, no routine testing and other things that would be unlawful in other workplaces.

And 'sending my children in as key worker children' will only be possible if there are enough staff well enough and not SI to be on site.

The way this virus is spreading through primary schools, that's looking pretty unlikely unfortunately.

@RuleWithAWoodenFoot you know many other people have had to spend their annual leave in lockdown. It's not unique to teachers.

If they shut secondaries they need to shut primaries as well or it's pointless not to mention being unfair to teaching staff.
They cannot provide online teaching for some whilst doing a full day teaching for others just not possible.

If it’s deemed necessary for schools to close it’s because there is nothing else left to shut to keep this virus in check. It shouldn’t come as a great surprise to parents, we’ve been told the winter was going to be tough (and that was before the new strain), if schools/nurseries shut. As I’ve said before one parent of children under 11 should be allowed to be furloughed if they wish, if they do not qualify for a school place. This should be for the set period schools are shut. The government could help with this.

And do you really want to send your child in to be constantly sent home to isolate or due to staff shortages?
The virus is spreading everywhere if it hasn't hit your school yet it's only a matter of time.
A lockdown for a month and getting as many ppl vaccinated ( including teaching staff as priority) is the only way we can realistically get back to teaching in the class rooms.

Forgetmenot157 all schools have been as good as they can be with hygiene, and that hasn't stopped outbreaks.

Things are fine in a particular school until suddenly they're not.

It's luck, random variance whatever you want to call it.

The new variant is spreading very quickly amongst primary school aged children. It's a dangerous working environment for school staff. Surely, we want to reduce the possibility of these 'explosive outbreaks' happening in more schools?

I bumped into a friend who works in a single-form London primary today. She's just recovering from covid, as are over half of her colleagues. Two are in critical care. PHE still wouldn't let them close the school, despite scores of positive cases amongst children as well.

There were no identified cases in her school until end of November btw.

And 'sending my children in as key worker children' will only be possible if there are enough staff well enough and not SI to be on site

This is a good point.

If too many people attempt to claim a KW place and school staff are too depleted to cope-the school will just close anyway. We are v close to two hospitals and have a number of NHS staff families-that would directly impact the hospital staffing.

Many other people could take other annual leave if one set was fucked up by covid. Teachers don't get that option. Teachers were also working from home with their own children around, it was equally 'impossible' for them.

But it's not a race to see who has done badly out of this.

These threads are also pointless, so I'll be bowing out. We don't know what is going to happen - and nor does the government. Whatever happens, the usual suspects will be here blaming teachers, telling us we're lazy and so on, which wastes everyone's time.

The issue with furloughing for childcare reasons is that then other staff members without children have to pick up the slack for the furloughed employees. That could cause resentment.

There's no magic formula of 'working really hard' and 'doing everything they can' that can keep a school COVID free.

If there were, we'd get rid of the thing!

The problem is that you can't wait. We had two cases one Monday and half the school isolating the following week. Who knows how many other people were infected as a result (grandparents, shop workers, cousins, neighbours etc).

Reading through this thread, I think if I had a choice, it would be splitting the classes in half and having them in on a rota, 2 days in, Wednesday off for a deep clean, 2 days at home / other way round. A longer half term planned in as a circuit breaker. I would want kids to bring printed out work home for their 2 days at home, that we could then do at the weekend so that I can work myself during the week, admittedly around the kids but I wouldn't need to supervise them doing work / activities on my work days then. Then whenever we are able to get to a new normal, schools need more flexibility to catch kids up however they see fit.

If I were in charge I would switch all lessons to online, but I would hire a staff to supervise the children who need someplace to be during the day. So ask people to keep their kids home if they can and if not, they can come to the school building and be assigned a desk with aides available to provide supervision and tech support. Both masks and social distancing would be enforced. Hallways and other non-classroom space can be utilized because the children are learning via computer with headphones for zoom classes so it doesn’t matter that they are in shared spaces. This also provides continuity in the even schools must shutter entirely because kids will still be using the same system to learn, just having everyone at home instead of those who can volunteer to make it more spread out in the buildings.

@latti

All schools need to close until February half term.

Everything possible has been done to keep them open but if they were in a tier, they’d be in tier 10!

this is true!! people are fed up with schools spreading this when not everyone has anything at all to do with schools....not fair on the majority anymore

So what do you suggest if we you don't want school closed for a short time to get numbers under control??

I also worry that everyone will demand a key worker place and the ones that really need it will miss out due to lack of spaces.

@GlowingOrb

If I were in charge I would switch all lessons to online, but I would hire a staff to supervise the children who need someplace to be during the day. So ask people to keep their kids home if they can and if not, they can come to the school building and be assigned a desk with aides available to provide supervision and tech support. Both masks and social distancing would be enforced. Hallways and other non-classroom space can be utilized because the children are learning via computer with headphones for zoom classes so it doesn’t matter that they are in shared spaces. This also provides continuity in the even schools must shutter entirely because kids will still be using the same system to learn, just having everyone at home instead of those who can volunteer to make it more spread out in the buildings.

But neither option would work for young kids, eg yr1 6yo.

@RuleWithAWoodenFoot

Yeah lockdown in all the school holidays... happy annual leave teachers.. enjoy your, erm.. living room.

You know most parents only take annual leave during school holidays too, right? It’s hardly like I’m advocating that I should go on holiday and have fun during term time and teachers only get lockdown. In fact, I have to work for over half the school holidays (because not enough leave for existing holidays), and with a strict lockdown, no childcare support. So I would be working with a primary school child at home, just timed to give the best chance of breaking infection cycles so schools and businesses can keep functioning.

The only time off I’ve had this year I pretty much collapsed in the house and read with DS because I didn’t want to travel during a pandemic and am burnt out.