The logistical issue with closing primary schools...

[Jourdain11]

Just want to say at the start that, in saying this, I do not in any way mean to undermine teachers' and school staffs' right to work in a safe environment. But there is a big logistical issue with the closure of primary schools, assuming that childcare arrangements would also be knocked out.

In the spring, a huge number of people were either wfh or furloughed. That is no longer the case to the same extent. Since the rules/guidance now is to "work from home unless you cannot do your job at home", there are many, many more people who are expected to go into work, at least on a part-time schedule.

Which creates a huge issue in terms of primary-aged children doing remote learning from home. Either you end up with a pretty large number of "key worker" or "unable to learn from home" children going into school (which creates issues for staff in terms of providing in-school staffing and online provision simultaneously, and also slightly defeats the point of the entire exercise); or you have thousands of parents having to resign their jobs, take unpaid leave, beg for time off or whatever (which is clearly very far from ideal). Or you end up with parents simply saying, "I pay taxes for my children to be educated in school and it is their right to receive this education" and sending them in anyway.

Seems the only way around this would be either to have a "short, sharp" shutdown with a (for example) 2-week timelimit, which might be more manageable for both parents and school staff. Or to stay open and increase hygiene measures in PSs, or at least strive to make them equal across all schools.

Thoughts?

You sound incredibly bitter...

I know benefits are means tested but if you are a single parent earning say 60k with a high mortgage who has to stop working with limited notice to look after your child getting benefits is not necessarily going to help you pay for everything
It’s tough shit though. That’s your problem not anyone else’s. That scenario happened to me and nobody gave a shit, but now it’s happening to them as well and they’re all whinging about it.

So basically screw everyone else, nice.

@EttaG so you have a husband that works. You have someone else to help support you financially. I'm a single parent with a mortgage.

That scenario happened to me and nobody gave a shit, but now it’s happening to them as well and they’re all whinging about it.

That scenario I mentioned involved a single parent which you are not. Not sending your child to school because they are vulnerable is different to closing schools.

That's what all the shrieking for lockdown is, though, isn't it - those of us who aren't at serious risk are expected to give up our homes, our livelihoods and our children's education to protect those who are.

But you have given up your job because your child is at risk & you don't want them in a dangerous setting. That's completely your right but I don't see how it's comparable to just expecting other parents to give up jobs
My child can’t go to school so I’ve had to give up my job and struggle financially. Nobody gave a shit. But now their kids can’t go to school (assuming schools are closed) so they have to give up their jobs, and suddenly it’s a big tragedy. Funny how it’s tough when it happens to me but everyone is up in arms when the same thing happens to them!

@Waxonwaxoff0 tough shit apparently.

@jillypill

So basically screw everyone else, nice.

Sorry, my previous message was replying to this one.

those of us who aren't at serious risk are expected to give up our homes, our livelihoods and our children's education to protect those who are
I’d argue that it’s the other way round. Those who aren’t at risk are expecting others who are at risk to continue going about their business as normal. E.g. parents expecting teachers to take massive risks and look after their kids so they can work.

@EttaG but you have options. You have a husband that works so you aren't surviving on benefits yourself but you're telling other people to. You could look for a job that fits around your husband's hours if you're that hard up. Single parents do not have that option.

Not all kids have laptops or even internet access. Unless there's specific provision for these children they are being excluded from education however for those families that can provide a suitable environment and equipment for online learning should be told they can keep their kids home until Easter with assignments and work logged weekly (if work is not up to scratch they can be recalled to school) this will free up space in classrooms, especially if say 1/2 do online learning

@EttaG, if you can't see the difference between making a choice (albeit a hard one) between putting your DC at risk and giving up your job, and having the choice made for you by school closure, there's something a bit wrong.

Not sending your child to school because they are vulnerable is different to closing schools
The outcome is the same. Child can’t go to school (for whatever reason), therefore parent can’t work.

Nobody gave a shit.

Who's nobody?

Anything that impacts on millions will cause more of a noise.

Funny how it’s tough when it happens to me but everyone is up in arms when the same thing happens to them!

I think it's awful you not had more support & obviously it's not a good thing you have had to give up your job however I don't understand why you have no sympathy for others.

The outcome is the same. Child can’t go to school (for whatever reason), therefore parent can’t work.

But you are advocating for schools to close whereas many parents need primaries in particular to stay open.

What about jobs which have required years of education and/or training? You can’t just get any old person in to do those jobs. If I or my DH were to need replacing in our roles it would be a very specific recruitment process from a limited pool. It’s nonsense to say people can be easily replaced, that’s just not always the case.

Yes! Plus jobs that require disclosure checks and security clearances. Plus jobs which the country needs staffed now in order to run, not in six months when we’ve recruited and trained up replacements.

A lot of people seem to think that ‘working parents’ are some separate species who only do frivolous little part-time envelope-stuffing jobs for pocket money, and the real jobs are being done by men with SAHP wives, or robots or fairies or something.

It takes a lot of people to keep a country running through a pandemic. Some of us have children, and many of us (most, where I live) didn’t/don’t qualify for keyworker childcare. If we all quit tomorrow because we had no other way to care for our children properly, the country would be in trouble.

I don't understand why you have no sympathy for others
Nobody had any sympathy for me? “We can’t keep your child safe from Covid so he’ll have to stay at home”. “But that’ll mean I can’t work?” “Tough”. “Can I at least have benefits to replace some of the salary I’m losing ?” “Nope”.

But when loads of other people are facing the same scenario of being unable to work due to childcare provision being removed, suddenly there’s an outcry 🙄

But you are advocating for schools to close whereas many parents need primaries in particular to stay open
I needed childcare provision to remain available to my child - but it didn’t. Tough shit innit.

My point is your dc can't go to school whether they are open or shut so why do you want them to be shut for others?

I do feel for your situation but it's not the same as being a single parent.

Could your dc's school have been made safe for them?

EttaG it's not true that 'nobody had sympathy for you'.

Teachers have been saying that schools should be safer for all children from the get go.

The idea that people should just deregister their CV or ECV child is disablist and has been called out many times on MN.

Children with disabilities, SEN or illnesses have features nowhere in the govt's planning, as they so rarely do.

The system might not have had any sympathy for you, but that's not to say that ordinary people didn't/haven't.

I can completely understand why you're bitter, but the people that you're arguing with are ones that on the whole want all children and families to be supported.

My point is your dc can't go to school whether they are open or shut so why do you want them to be shut for others?
I don’t specifically want them to be shut. I couldn’t care less. My point is that if they ARE shut and that means some parents can no longer work because they have no childcare, it’s tough shit. Same as it was tough shit when I could no longer work because I had no childcare.

@EttaG

So the child of the parent who has to give their job up or take unpaid leave long term gets no education and potentially put on the poverty line For every parent who can’t work there’s a person on benefits who can. So do a swap - give the benefits to the parent and give the job to the person who’s available to work. To society as a whole it doesn’t matter which person has the job and which has the benefits. It’s tough but when you choose to have kids you need to accept that they’re your responsibility. If looking after your own kids means you can’t work then I guess you can’t work.

That’s fine for unskilled jobs. It doesn’t really work for jobs that take years of specialist training! You’re hardly likely to be able to get some random to step in for the paediatric consultant or barrister who is a parent, are you?

And when I say fine, I mean ‘stupid’ anyway. You’re suggesting every parent of primary school children is irresponsible for having them and imagining they should be able to work at the same time as though a global pandemic is a predictable event. Luckily the government doesn’t agree with you as I think you’ll find they’ll do everything they can to keep primary schools at least open. Much as that must chap your ass.