London School of Hygiene & Medicine states that all schools need to be closed

[SoscaredforJan]

Pre-print of the new B.1.1.7 lineage published 23rd Dec 2020.

“Our estimates suggest that control measures of a similar stringency to the national lockdown implemented in England in November 2020 are unlikely to reduce the effective reproduction number Rt to less than 1, unless primary schools, secondary schools, and universities are also closed.

We project that large resurgences of the virus are likely to occur following easing of control measures.

It may be necessary to greatly accelerate vaccine roll-out to have an appreciable impact in suppressing the resulting disease burden.”

cmmid.github.io/topics/covid19/uk-novel-variant.html

I'm sure nurseries outside are great. Bear in mind please that us teachers are also expected to deliver the whole curriculum and Ofsted will be checking up on us. It's an impossible situation. How do you teach a child to read and keep 2m safe distance? What do you do when a child falls over at playtime? What about when a child is sobbing because their grandparent in a home has died of Covid? When a parent sends them in with symptoms because they need to do their 0 hours job? When parents refuse to collect them when they have persistent coughs? When they cough in your face? Whisper in your ear? Throw up? Wet themselves? When there are 30 plus of them in your room and you CAN'T keep any distance?

@Barbie222

I've never claimed to have any answers, and this is forum so you know, I am allowed to have an opinion ffs.

Forgive us if we don't find your opinion a useful contribution to the discussion, then. I've much more time for posters who are honest that it's difficult for everyone. Seeing things from both sides is how you create a way forward.

It's not difficult for everyone is it? I've already said it's difficult for a lot of people. I can see things from both sides. People likening school to play dates obviously can't and yet you're lecturing me? Forgive me if I don't find that particularly fucking helpful eh? Double standards.

@christinarossetti19

Of course it's not comparable to school!

But you were bemoaning your child's lack of socialisation full stop, and the guidelines are such that it doesn't have to be as extreme as you feared.

I thought you'd be pleased with this information.

Yes I said great. What's your point?

MessAllOver tinies stay warmer because they're constantly running, climbing and moving around.

It's not really possible to teach KS3 or KS4 outside in the rain with children running around, you must be able to see that?

My children used to spend hours in the park in all weathers. Now that they're teens, not so much and that's a fairly normal developmental process.

@MessAllOver

I mean, there might be reasons why it's not possible but our local primary schools (Outer London) have reasonable sized playgrounds (even if they're concrete jungles). Would it be impossible to rig up some marquees or outdoor shelters and move as many classes as possible outside? The risk of transmission is after all greatly reduced in the open air. Yes, students would have to be dressed properly, but most could layer up with multiple jumpers, mittens, winter coats and thick socks. Much better than being in germ-ridden classrooms.

I fear that some parents won't or can't dress their children properly for outside lessons.

However the idea is very sensible in theory. The schools would have to have a large collection of coat and warm clothes in practice for those that are not sent suitably dressed. A call out for donations of clothes would probably sort that though.

My point is that the pandemic is difficult for most people Genie, school staff included living in a state of constant fear and anxiety about their unsafe working conditions.

@christinarossetti19

MessAllOver tinies stay warmer because they're constantly running, climbing and moving around.

It's not really possible to teach KS3 or KS4 outside in the rain with children running around, you must be able to see that?

My children used to spend hours in the park in all weathers. Now that they're teens, not so much and that's a fairly normal developmental process.

All secondary kids apart from sen really need to be wearing masks in lessons now. Sadly it is the only way forwards.

Hate to be the poor teacher that has deal with enforcing that though. Especially with some year 9s I know

@christinarossetti19

My point is that the pandemic is difficult for most people Genie, school staff included living in a state of constant fear and anxiety about their unsafe working conditions.

Yes, do you think I don't understand that?

I just don't agree that closing schools for months again is very good for children but apparently I am inherently wrong about everything ever.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

I've not met anyone who's enjoyed the pandemic, or found it easy. Thankfullly, most of the people I know seem to have become more tolerant, flexible and appreciative of what they have through having to cope with a difficult situation. Merry Christmas.

Where's your 4yo today genie?

@TheHoneyBadger

Where's your 4yo today genie?

Here, why?

@PandemicPavlova - many secondary aged kids left alone at home with devices all day will just game all day/watch dodgy stuff on tube/text their friends and worse (leave the house against the rules). So what is your suggestion?

Pushy grammars/independents, I am sure, can engage most of their pupils online, but whoever thinks that many normal kids will work hard alone all day are naive. That is precisely why it didn’t take off much last time.

The same amount of time as all you lot? Yep. It's 10pm my 4yo is in bed.

Asking me where my 4yo is as in I'm luonh or I'm negligent? Shameful and disgusting.

I'm out. I'm not going to be judged by people like you.

No-one thinks that closing schools if they are safe is good for children.

No-one, other than you Genie, has mentioned closing them for 'months on end'.

The starting point is that schools aren't safe. You're talking about children and schooling as though that's not a factor, let alone the main factor to take into account at this point in time.

@christinarossetti19

No-one thinks that closing schools if they are safe is good for children.

No-one, other than you Genie, has mentioned closing them for 'months on end'.

The starting point is that schools aren't safe. You're talking about children and schooling as though that's not a factor, let alone the main factor to take into account at this point in time.

I haven't said anyone thinks it's good? I mentioned months on end as that's what it was last time. Wasn't it? Did I say any of you suggested it? No. Why are you trying to twist what I've said? It's weird.

"I just don't agree that closing schools for months again is very good for children but apparently I am inherently wrong about everything ever."

That's what you said Genie.

You've continually talked about schooling as though the fact that they're unsafe the moment is irrelevant.

@christinarossetti19

"I just don't agree that closing schools for months again is very good for children but apparently I am inherently wrong about everything ever."

That's what you said Genie.

You've continually talked about schooling as though the fact that they're unsafe the moment is irrelevant.

No, I really haven't. Of course it's relevant. I'm just talking about the other side of it. Which is apparently helpful when other people do it but apparently not ok for me. What is your problem? You seem to think you know lots about me but at the same time invent what you think I've said? It's bizarre.

@Jrobhatch29

*Mental health works both ways just not only in the one way that suits your narrative.

Lots of children are struggling with mental health by being in a school and constantly isolating, the worry for their parents and carers, the GCSE unknown worry, Sick teachers in hospital. Some struggle with school pre pandemic. Then there's the mental health of the staff which is important as they have to run the school.

Teachers worry about mental health but can see a bigger picture not just the one way.*

I do not deny those issues but they irrelevant here because the poster i was quoting wasn't talking about mental health in terms of isolations or staff. They were disregarding the effect of school closures on children as just being because parents cannot control their kids, because they are not resilient enough or just because they miss their friends.

ok so kids from families that were shielding for months were then forced to go back to school in classes of 30-35 with no social distancing.

Believe me, that is not good for their mental health.

@christinarossetti19

MessAllOver tinies stay warmer because they're constantly running, climbing and moving around.

It's not really possible to teach KS3 or KS4 outside in the rain with children running around, you must be able to see that?

My children used to spend hours in the park in all weathers. Now that they're teens, not so much and that's a fairly normal developmental process.

Exactly, small children naturally move around more and don’t have to sit down to do written work for prolonged periods. Their extremities are much closer to their heart so they keep warmer. Sitting still teaching or writing is not the same at all. How would you write or draw when your fingers are cold and numb. Cold air on the face can also cause airways to narrow in asthmatics. Childcare and early years can take place largely outside but not the education of older children. They could be outside more I’m sure but how many adults would be up for moving their desk outside for the day?? There would also be a lot of noise/ distraction from the surroundings of many schools.

Anyway that really is it from me. I have nothing further to say as you're obviously only interested in people who replicate your view. I am not interested in "debate" with people who twist my words, think they know all about me and make digs about my child/ parenting. I'll leave you all to it.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

oh and I also would be very keen for my kids to go to school, but only if they are not hotbeds of infection in a pandemic, as they currently are.

It is terrible for the children in various ways and also terrible for the wider community.

We need to follow WHO advice if we are going to have schools open safely.

Bye then. Have a nice life.

@RosesAndHellebores

The illness in children and young people is relatively mild. Schools and universities must remain open. However to facilitate that we need to think more carefully about the distribution of the vaccine and teachers/lecturers must be given parity with front line NHS staff. I agree with Prue Leith's comments and know the children's (albeit grown up ones) grannies in their 80s would too.

We need to facilitate the working population and continue shielding the elderly population.

Yes this, I’m fed up with our children being sacrificed by a virus that in the main has little effect on them. What does have a big effect is being isolated from their education, routine and friends.

It’s time to accept you can’t ‘beat’ a virus it’ll do it’s thing, let’s protect the vulnerable and let the rest of us get on. Covid doesn’t equal death!