London School of Hygiene & Medicine states that all schools need to be closed

[SoscaredforJan]

Pre-print of the new B.1.1.7 lineage published 23rd Dec 2020.

“Our estimates suggest that control measures of a similar stringency to the national lockdown implemented in England in November 2020 are unlikely to reduce the effective reproduction number Rt to less than 1, unless primary schools, secondary schools, and universities are also closed.

We project that large resurgences of the virus are likely to occur following easing of control measures.

It may be necessary to greatly accelerate vaccine roll-out to have an appreciable impact in suppressing the resulting disease burden.”

cmmid.github.io/topics/covid19/uk-novel-variant.html

Although when it comes to young school-age I’m not sure there’s a massive difference anyway. There are 4-year-olds at school and 5-year-olds at nursery, and none of them can reasonably be left unsupervised for most of the day.

I don’t know what the answer is. If schools/unis/nurseries have to close because nothing else will get the cases down, then it’ll have to be that until the vaccine starts making an impact. But there are a lot of working parents who will just not do it this time round (or who will try and fail and resign), and whatever the national response is it’ll need to factor in what happens if those people’s jobs don’t get done - without handwaving real problems aside as parents being all selfish and me-me-me.

Lol at the need for two working parents being questionable. What a joke that is.

Schools won't shut completely. They will remain open to some.

60/70 years ago there were much worse diseases like Polio and measles even TB just before antibiotics. Schools weren’t shut for months for them.

12stairway

60/70 years ago there were much worse diseases like Polio and measles even TB just before antibiotics. Schools weren’t shut for months for them.

But childhood death was commonplace.

stairway there were high levels of infant and child mortality 60/70 years ago.

Life expectancy was under 70 year of age, so approx the current retirement age.

The NHS and Welfare State were in their early stages and rapidly changing health and social outcomes for poorer people in particular.

Children could leave school legally at 15, many for a life in factories.

But yes schools weren't closed for months, so that's obviously something to aspire to.

This is really obvious and has been for some time....

Not saying this is a good thing but at the society level some people resigning in a time when many jobs are being lost isn't much of a threat.

In the first instance we would be talking about short term closures and/or moving to blended learning rotas in secondary schools. That's where infection rates are highest and where the least childcare impact would be felt. Imo it's likely that and continued tier system restrictions would be enough to bring down infection rates.

We're not quite at the tethering babies to the table end of things.

What about those of us with disabled children, for whom therapy is part of their curriculum?

Nobody is thinking about them.

It's not about not thinking about anyone's child it's about coming together as a society and doing what needs to be done to get Covid under control. It's absolutely shit for everyone. Everyone is affected one way or another.

And for people who envision gangs of marauding teenagers on the streets (I'm sceptical but maybe I'm sheltered) they will be breaking the law and that is what policing is for and why extra powers have been given.

Plus the idea that all teenagers and teachers must be rammed in school if it's unsafe in case some kids might hang around on the streets is not a proportionate or as the kids I teach would say, 'fair' strategy.

Not saying this is a good thing but at the society level some people resigning in a time when many jobs are being lost isn't much of a threat.

Yes, it is. Apart from the wider impact of taxes, there are a lot of jobs that you really need to have up and running during a national emergency like this. We can't just go "ah well never mind, we don't need to give any business support/universal credit payments/Covid tests for the next couple of months while we get some new people in."

@heydoggee

What about those of us with disabled children, for whom therapy is part of their curriculum?

Nobody is thinking about them.

Yes they are. That's why it's always stated that schools would stay open for vulnerable kids including those with additional health needs.

@Itisasecret

People forget that teachers and educational staff are parents too.

Yes, they often do! I have had to do a months worth of wfh as my 5 year old has had two bouts of self isolation due to positive cases in her class basically back to back plus she and I have tested positive for Covid. I had to teach my lessons (every one of them) via video into my classroom (with a cover teacher there) plus also to children at home at the same time due to them having to self isolate at my school too. Yes my 5 year old was pretty much left in the living room watching CBeebies, random stickers books left out, snack plates and water pre laid out for her. All day. And due to self isolation, not even allowed to go outside for exercise. Her education came from doing some in the evening (through Oak National Academy) and at the weekend. In this scenario, with last minute calls from school to self isolate, it’s been a burden on my own pupils as well as my own child. However, there need not be any hyperbole on sacrificing my DD or ‘throwing her under the bus’ because we juggled, adapted and yes, whilst my DD was self isolating and I wasn’t, this was unpaid too.

I completely understand the fear of going back into home learning that many posters have had on this thread, due to their experience last time but quite frankly, you have been lucky to have had a whole term of uninterrupted school experience, when many of us haven’t.

We need to be pointing towards the government and some of their scientists as to why they have not put any effort into getting us prepared in case more schools have to close (because plenty did last Term). Despite this though, schools and staff have been working tirelessly to be able to provide good quality remote work in case we get little notice. I have been working on Christmas Eve doing tasks through Teams for my Year 7s, for example.

And to the parent who complained to my Deputy Head last Thursday that I didn’t put my video camera on whilst video teaching from home (to a year 9 class) and I had to as my DD was in the room, please try to see beyond your own insular world and appreciate that we are trying our best.

"how do we think people coped 60/70 years ago?"

in the 'olden days' my mother sometimes did part time work when we were in school and so did some of the mothers of my friends but if you had several kids you were mostly a SAHM. At least until one of them got old enough to look after the others.

Then wages were gradually reduced until you needed two parents wages just to pay basic food and rent. This was presented as "Freedom for Women". The freedom to go to work all day AND do all the childcare for the same total income as you had before.

Back then closing the schools would have not been so hard to deal with as it is now.

We probably can't even go back to the older kids looking after the younger. I was about 7 or 8 when I started walking my younger sister to and from school. (10 minutes and with a main road/zebra crossing) I think that would be seen as a crime now and so would leaving an 11yo to look after toddlers for several hours and give them supper.

[quote Fieldofyellowflowers]@SchrodingersUnicorn

Not all kids managed well with online education.

Not all schools provided good online learning.

So to say that all kids can get a good education online is untrue.[/quote]
Totally agree with this!

If my teen did go and hang around with his friends (he doesn't, they're all chatting online instead) - he'd find it hard to hang around somewhere indoors with 200 of them for hours. It'd be a few in the park at best.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

I'd really love to know how my child will get a good online education when he is 4 years old and me and his dad both work ft. I can work from home but I cannot switch off to teach him because I have an actual job to do. There is no way that he will get am equivalent education of that he would get in a classroom.

This is totally us. One 5 year old, a 7 year old with SN, neither of whom can learn independently online. DH & I both working FT, should we choose between education or keeping our house? Primary children especially at the younger end don't do well online

I suppose that's the flip side of it, too - if schools are technically 'open' but actually half the kids in the country are at home self-isolating, that's not exactly much of an improvement.

@Porcupineintherough

A 4 year old doesnt need much in the way of formal education but a 7 year old or a 9 year old needs more. And they all need input in the way of care and entertainment. Which is bloody hard to do if you are working from home full time and impossible if you need to leave home to work. So, like it or not, there is a whole childcare angle to primary schooling as well as an educational one.

For secondary schools I think blended learning should be considered - far better than full time schooling that isnt full time because of hotpotch isolation. And ffs bringing mask wearing in class!

Agree with this!

I bet any money not many pensioners would curtail their social lives for "the greater good" if it was kids at risk

You'd be wrong - I know so many people over 70 and those under 70 with serious underlying illnesses or conditions, who have hardly left their houses since March.

And don't discount the mental well-being implications of the feat than any encounter outside your own home may result in serious illness or death.

Accept @TrustTheGeneGenie that it's been hard for everyone - just hard in different ways. And that we are all interconnected.

"Yes they are. That's why it's always stated that schools would stay open for vulnerable kids including those with additional health needs."

The problem is that didn't happen last time so parents are not convinced it will this time either.

Thank you QueenoftheAir and all the countless others who’s lives have changed so much (and often for the worse) so that most schools have been able to stay open fo as long as they have. There are many of us who appreciate it!

@QueenoftheAir

I bet any money not many pensioners would curtail their social lives for "the greater good" if it was kids at risk

You'd be wrong - I know so many people over 70 and those under 70 with serious underlying illnesses or conditions, who have hardly left their houses since March.

And don't discount the mental well-being implications of the feat than any encounter outside your own home may result in serious illness or death.

Accept @TrustTheGeneGenie that it's been hard for everyone - just hard in different ways. And that we are all interconnected.

I think you've misunderstood me. And no it hasn't been hard for everyone.

Many people have enjoyed it As evidenced by thread after thread on here.

I have never implied it's just me that's been "inconvenienced" so I don't really get your point.

It was down to the individual schools which Sen children could attend. We had some not attend my school during the first lockdown as it was deemed not to be in their best interest. However parents were brought in to discuss this individually.