London School of Hygiene & Medicine states that all schools need to be closed

[SoscaredforJan]

Pre-print of the new B.1.1.7 lineage published 23rd Dec 2020.

“Our estimates suggest that control measures of a similar stringency to the national lockdown implemented in England in November 2020 are unlikely to reduce the effective reproduction number Rt to less than 1, unless primary schools, secondary schools, and universities are also closed.

We project that large resurgences of the virus are likely to occur following easing of control measures.

It may be necessary to greatly accelerate vaccine roll-out to have an appreciable impact in suppressing the resulting disease burden.”

cmmid.github.io/topics/covid19/uk-novel-variant.html

@BungleandGeorge

Most schools plans don’t include anything like 9-3 as live teaching or instant messaging. I don’t think that is the expectation from the government guidelines either

I hope it’s not, but I know it wasn’t last time and the teachers at my DC’s primary were working some ridiculous hours trying to fit things in around covering in the keyworker hub schools and caring for their own children/helping the teachers who were. Not sure how it worked in secondary, but the couple of secondary teachers I know with young children looked absolutely wiped out by summer.

I know here in Scotland teachers will qualify for keyworker childcare this time round while they’re providing ‘online learning’ (which is only supposed to be for a week but then we went under firebreak restrictions for 16 days back in October and we’re still here!) I don’t know how they’re managing teaching KW kids plus online learning for others though.

[quote trulydelicious]@TrustTheGeneGenie

I'm sick of hearing small kids dont matter. Their education doesn't matter. Their friendships and development don't matter. Because they are only 4 or 5

nobody will care as long as we're saving the elderly generation and the nhs

Would you still be so militant if it was confirmed that the new virus strands did indeed affect children and put them at risk of death, the same as adults?

Would you still want schools open no matter what?[/quote]
Surely it depends on which ‘adults’? Healthy 20 somethings are only fractionally more at risk than children anyway. The risk to children has to be put into context of other diseases, many of which are killers on a small scale, even seemingly innocuous things like ear infections. Not to mention accidents in the home, abuse etc. To expect to have no additional risk in the middle of a pandemic is unachievable. To expect others to take all the risk and inconvenience is a non starter, we need to assess the risk and make it as low as possible

So if people think that teachers with young children shouldn't be expected teach, who will be teaching?

How did we get from education/schools are vital to they don't really matter in a few posts?

@christinarossetti19. I think the logical conclusion is that, if schools shut, access to education will be hugely reduced, partly because teachers with young children won't be able to teach online properly but also because of issues around parental supervision of pupils/access to technology. That's why open schools are so vital.

In reality, headteachers will bully their staff who will be forced to neglect and ignore their own children to teach other people's kids online.

People forget that teachers and educational staff are parents too.

@BungleandGeorge

Surely it depends on which adults

What I mean is some focus so much on their own children without having any consideration for others (teachers, parents, elderly relatives, NHS workers etc)

They complain that their children's social life is impacted when other people are dying

Same with those who relaxed precautions during the summer allowing for teenagers to hold 'pool parties', sent them on holiday to Greece so they got infected there, etc, etc

A lot of this irresponsible and selfish behaviour is to blame for the dire situation we are facing now.

I'm sure they would act differently if Covid affected children/young adults and older adults equally. They would not act so self-absorbed

Teachers with kids will manage like everyone else will manage when it comes to it. It's bloody tough but we'll have to manage if it's not safe to have schools open.

Doesn’t the homeschool model involve all working parents ‘neglecting and ignoring’ their kids if that’s how you choose to see it? Neglect is ongoing failure to provide adequately for basic needs so I’m not sure that applies to the majority. It’s not ideal no, many people don’t want to do it. It will negatively affect many. Whether it is neglect depends on your individual circumstances, with very little ones possibly it could be if you are the only parent at home/ unable to take breaks etc. However telling a child you’re working, they need to entertain themselves is not in itself neglect. We may just have to accept that we can’t do perfect schooling/ parenting in the midst of a pandemic and as long as the kids are safe and fed a bit of extra tv or a messy house is acceptable. Personally I think there must be some sort of compromise that means teachers and children are safer but working parents still have some childcare.

@MessAllOver

But what I do think is that we need to think through the consequences of having a significant proportion of the workforce not working

Yes, I agree this is a problem that needs to be addressed (and hopefully as a PP said try and keep schols open 'safely' if this is at all possible)

But some of these posts are all 'me' 'me' 'my children's needs', so selfish it's shocking

@trulydelicious. I intend to put my own toddler's need for effective supervision ahead of anyone else's needs. I'd quite like to still have a child at the end of the next lockdown. But I'm not sure that's really what you're referring to...

@BungleandGeorge

We may just have to accept that we can’t do perfect schooling/ parenting in the midst of a pandemic and as long as the kids are safe and fed a bit of extra tv or a messy house is acceptable

^This should be the case for most.

Leaving aside the need in some households for both parents to work (for some this need is questionable), how do we think people coped 60/70 years ago?

[quote trulydelicious]@BungleandGeorge

Surely it depends on which adults

What I mean is some focus so much on their own children without having any consideration for others (teachers, parents, elderly relatives, NHS workers etc)

They complain that their children's social life is impacted when other people are dying

Same with those who relaxed precautions during the summer allowing for teenagers to hold 'pool parties', sent them on holiday to Greece so they got infected there, etc, etc

A lot of this irresponsible and selfish behaviour is to blame for the dire situation we are facing now.

I'm sure they would act differently if Covid affected children/young adults and older adults equally. They would not act so self-absorbed[/quote]
I agree with you, although I would also say the majority of people didn’t do that. A section of society will always put their own wants first. You’ll have people at the extremes but most people will accept a sensible compromise

@MessAllOver

I intend to put my own toddler's need for effective supervision ahead of anyone else's needs

Fine, but you have to accept that your child's needs will not be a priority for other people

@trulydelicious. 60/70 years ago, parents often left quite young children in charge of their even younger siblings. Sticking babies in prams or playpens for hours on end was considered fine. There's a lot of parenting practices from that time which are no longer acceptable.

And yes, I accept my child's needs aren't a priority for anyone else. They are a priority for me, however, since I'm his parent.

All I'm saying is that, like many other parents, I won't be available for work if I don't have childcare. And my employer/students/HMRC will have to accept that.

[quote MessAllOver]@trulydelicious. 60/70 years ago, parents often left quite young children in charge of their even younger siblings. Sticking babies in prams or playpens for hours on end was considered fine. There's a lot of parenting practices from that time which are no longer acceptable.[/quote]
Not because they didn’t want to, they generally were too busy doing the essentials of providing food and money for the family. We don’t have the luxury we did a year ago, we might have to accept a lower standard. I don’t think you can expect the state to provide for all parents to concentrate 100% on their kids every need. We also need many parents to be able to do their jobs for essential services to run

Well there were stories from Victorian mill towns of mothers tethering babies to the kitchen table so they could go out to work in factories, we could give that a shot?

If your child is under school age in this country there is no requirement to work so that would be a valid choice

I'm sure they would act differently if Covid affected children/young adults and older adults equally. They would not act so self-absorbed

I bet any money not many pensioners would curtail their social lives for "the greater good" if it was kids at risk.

The thread was about schools closing so I’m not sure where babies and toddlers come into it anyway. Not quite the same as a school age child

You can debate it all you like. The virus doesn't care what you think or what is convenient. It will continue to spread like wildfire while the schools are open. And that risks further mutations before the vaccine.

Yeah, you can apply for Universal Credit. Or furlough, if you’re eligible. Or various other grants and benefits to get your family through a tough patch.

Unfortunately, all those claims are processed and payments made by people, including parents of young children, who we really need to keep on doing those jobs or things are a bit of a mess.

@BungleandGeorge

The thread was about schools closing so I’m not sure where babies and toddlers come into it anyway. Not quite the same as a school age child

The thread is about a paper that looks at schools, universities and nurseries all closing. Is why.

My job is quite important and I pay a lot of tax, but I am not going to do another March style lockdown, if there are school closures again. I have 4 children, including a preschooler.

Last time I put my job first and tried my best to plug the educational gaps with the children. This time I am going to put my own family first and our mental health, I just can’t do it again. Neither can my neighbour who is a consultant doctor redeployed to a Covid ward. Her kids were in school but no actual learning for months.
I know for a fact that the vast majority of my friends from uni and school feel the same way and most of us have successful careers. So these careers and our taxes will be on hold. You might think we are a minority, but I doubt it. Working mums will be thrown under the bus if the government closes schools.

A lot of women didn't work 60/70 years ago or left work once they had children.

And my childcare needs during lockdown went beyond 'a bit of a messy house', I had a 1 year old who was literally climbing the walls, falling off furniture etc at the same time as homeschooling and reception aged DC. I had to stop all work until they went to bed and then try and fit in 10 hours of work before the little one woke again.