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Original poster

Tier 4 - not the same for everyone in it

197 replies

bagpuss90 · 20/12/2020 14:20

To be a bit fed up with Facebook comments saying “Christmas isn’t cancelled”, “it’s not that bad” , “ “ it’s not the end of the world” and so on. These are coming from people who will be spending Christmas cosied up with the family they live with. I know at least three people who will be forced to spend Christmas on their own - at least one of them suffers mental health problems . It’s not the same - you cannot compare the situations. I also know a couple whose granddaughter is tragically terminally ill. It will be her last Christmas and they can’t see her without breaking the law. I’m sorry it is not the same for everyone - it really isn’t . We are not all in the same boat . Rant over

OP posts:
Ted27 · 20/12/2020 19:35

@AldiAisleofCrap

I’m sure you mean well, and I have made a lomg distance train journey this, but do you really think its a great idea to get on a train on Christmas Eve and stay overnight with my 77 year old asthmatic parents, travelling from an area where cases are rising to one where they are falling.

We were planning to go for two hours on Sunday and sit in the garden - that would have been enough

merrymouse · 20/12/2020 19:35

But were the wife and kids just a red herring? It's like meeting a man on the way to St Ives! Grin

AldiAisleofCrap · 20/12/2020 19:41

So sorry @Ted27 I thought this was just bubble confusion, I totally missed that your parents were vulnerable Flowers

BlueBottle18 · 20/12/2020 19:46

@Dishwashersaurous

Many young adults live alone. Their parents have multiple adult children who live alone. They cannot all be a support bubble. Its really not a hard concept to grasp.

My BF is my usual support bubble. Over christmas I was going to see my parents and brother on boxing day. He was going to see his mum and sister over xmas.

Now I cannot see my parents as a) i am working christmas day and b) they are tier 4. My brother who has recently lost his job and is to be quite frank in a really low place is in a support bubble with my parents.

BF will be seeing his mum on xmas who are tier 4. As a result we will have to change our support bubble leaving 10 days between seeing each other. This is fine as his mum is also not coping very well, he also lives a while away and I only have boxing day off.

Yes I could probably find someone, but its not so much spending christmas alone its missing my family. I was looking forward to seeing them, and Im just a bit upset. I miss them. I really dont get why some posters wont allow people to be sad. Posting shite like 'christmas isnt cancelled' or 'we will be playing games instead' is just insensitve and lacking in empathy.

StealthPolarBear · 20/12/2020 19:48

There will be thousands of single adults in a support bubble who find themselves spending Christmas alone as a member of the other household tests positive

notanothertakeaway · 20/12/2020 19:49

@CoronaIsWatching

I think some people need to apply some common sense

In general I think some people just need to toughen up..it's literally just a day and well if you're not happy with your own company then you should work on that

That's harsh @CoronaIsWatching

I'm not condoning rule breaking, and it gives me the rage when so many people think that rules apply to other people, but for many people, being single is lonely, and especially at Christmas

BillysMyBunny · 20/12/2020 19:52

Bob may be in a support bubble with Bill but realistically that might just mean he has Bill over to his house a couple of weekends a month. Bill might not be able to easily invite Bob to spend Christmas with him. Bill might be married to Betty and he, Betty and their 3 kids might be travelling to Betty’s parents on Christmas day. Bob may have never met Betty’s parents before, plus the car is full with no room for Bob and Bob told them all weeks ago he was going to travel to stay with his brother Ben from the 23rd-27th. It’s a bit late for Bob to suddenly expect Bill to ask Betty to ask her parents to host him at such short notice and considering they’ve never met him before.

merrymouse · 20/12/2020 20:02

In general I think some people just need to toughen up..it's literally just a day and well if you're not happy with your own company then you should work on that

I think you are misunderstanding. It's not necessarily even about Christmas. It was the one day that people would be allowed to meet up regardless of whether it was Christmas. It's not like being precious about spending Christmas with your in-laws instead of your own parents. There is no guarantee that people will be able to meet up in January instead.

If you can't envision circumstances where people may be concerned or distressed because they can't see family/close friends, well maybe you should work on that.

Trickyboy · 20/12/2020 20:10

No it's not just about Christmas.. but it is still not the life long deprivation that some are over dramatising !!

It's until the vulnerable are vaccinated and the weather changes from cold to milder. So March/April ... I am sorry but you inability to be patient for a few months does not trump my right and my daughters right to life. Both of us would be very very unwell if we caught this..

StealthPolarBear · 20/12/2020 20:14

Do we know it's only until spring? We were told a little earlier this year that Christmas would be close to normal.

Ted27 · 20/12/2020 20:19

@Trickyboy - I think you are missing something here.

on this thread are people like me being told to suck it up, it's only a few months, just pluck a random person off the street,etc etc, As far as I can tell we aren't going anywhere.
Yes I could get on a train tomorrow and go. But I'm not.
I repeat I'm allowed to be pissed off that I haven't seen my family for a year which will be more like 18 months by the time your few more months are over
I'm entitled to want to see my mum but guess what I won't because she is vulnerable.

merrymouse · 20/12/2020 20:27

[quote Ted27]@Trickyboy - I think you are missing something here.

on this thread are people like me being told to suck it up, it's only a few months, just pluck a random person off the street,etc etc, As far as I can tell we aren't going anywhere.
Yes I could get on a train tomorrow and go. But I'm not.
I repeat I'm allowed to be pissed off that I haven't seen my family for a year which will be more like 18 months by the time your few more months are over
I'm entitled to want to see my mum but guess what I won't because she is vulnerable.[/quote]
Exactly - this thread is about the differing impact of restrictions on different people. Nobody is suggesting breaking the rules.

merrymouse · 20/12/2020 20:32

but it is still not the life long deprivation that some are over dramatising !!

It’s a simple fact that many older people won’t live to the other side of this. We have had a year of looking on the bright side, but sometimes it’s healthier to acknowledge how hard things are.

movingonup20 · 20/12/2020 20:36

Single people can bubble, this can be across tiers. If you are needed for care reasons, you are exempt

CarterBeatsTheDevil · 20/12/2020 20:42

I know some people worry that they will be encouraging people to wallow if they don't tell them to buck up or snap out of it or stiff upper lip or whatever, but I think actually the kindest and most supportive thing you can say to people, and the thing that will make them feel most able to carry on, is to say "Yes, it is really shit that you can't be with the people you need to be with at Christmas time, after this seriously shit year, and you are absolutely entitled to feel really upset about it." Even if you can't see what the fuss is about yourself, and even if you are in the same boat and trying to manage your own feelings in a different way.

People feel what they feel and if you tell them not to or that they are stupid for feeling it or that they are being weak or self indulgent, you will only make them feel as if they have nowhere to go when they're sad. And that is not a good way for people to feel over Christmas.

Ted27 · 20/12/2020 20:43

@movingonup20

I’m astounded at the inability of people to listen. If I could bubble do you not think I would.

My mum does not need care, if she did, the most sensible person wou,d be my brother, who lives alone in the same city, not me who lives 150 miles away.

merrymouse · 20/12/2020 20:47

@movingonup20

Single people can bubble, this can be across tiers. If you are needed for care reasons, you are exempt
Again, you cannot have more than two households in a support bubble, so the sums don’t add up for everyone.
StealthPolarBear · 20/12/2020 21:12

And if the main household is isolating then so is the individual. In their own house, alone.

SnackSizeRaisin · 20/12/2020 21:15

It's a rubbish situation for many people. There's nothing wrong with admitting that and having a good moan. It's not the same as a normal Christmas when some people were alone but could still see others on any other day, could at least socialise at church or volunteer somewhere etc.
And ww2 is a red herring. Do you imagine no one complained about that? Of course they did.

BillysMyBunny · 20/12/2020 21:16

I’m astounded at the inability of people to listen. If I could bubble do you not think I would.

Me too. All these people saying single people can just bubble when it is absolutely not that simple. My mum has two single adult children but only one of us can be in her bubble and stay overnight and for various reasons we’ve agreed it will be brother. I am in a support bubble with friends but they haven’t invited me for Christmas (for understandable reasons). It’s possible if I asked around I could find somebody who was willing to let me join them for Christmas (although as I’m a teacher I know a lot of my local friends wouldn’t want to take the risk) but being able to bubble on Christmas Day with a random friend m willing to host me at short notice absolutely won’t be the same as spending 5 days with my mum and sibling. It’s the first Christmas without my dad so we wanted to be together as a family. Surely people can understand the disappointment of having to change plans from seeing family to being alone or even having to bubble with a person you’re not close to.

It’s also worth me noting I have mental health conditions including BPD, social anxiety and depression. By my own admission I find Christmas hard and am not necessarily the easiest person to be around when I’m feeling down plus my social anxiety is crippling; I would feel awkward joining up with friends who are able to meet their family for Christmas by becoming a ‘bubble’ and I’d worry I might not be the best company. My mental health has been at rock bottom this week, haven’t been able to go to work, have been in hospital following fairly serious self-harm and have been fighting suicidal thoughts. I’m not sure I’m the sort of person people who aren’t close to me will want to be with on Christmas Day so it’s not as easy as just finding someone to bubble with, not everybody has a vast social network of close friends locally.

CheesyMother · 20/12/2020 21:36

@MotherForker

Many people have already formed bubbles with people who aren't able to over Xmas. Because they might be seeing family. You can't just keep forming bubbles all the time. You can have one support bubble.

There was a student in Radio 4 last night who isn't allowed to bubble because of the rules of her accommodation. She now can't travel to her parents.

You can change bubbles if you treat the people in your old bubble as not in your bubble for 10 days before forming the new bubble. It changed on 2 December.

I appreciate that it now might be too late for some people for Christmas, but you can now change bubbles.

Inkpaperstars · 21/12/2020 00:28

When you look at the detail of this, as with all the rules but particularly now, what are the chances that vast swathes of the population just won’t put the time and/or thought into bothering to find out exactly what is allowed, let alone act on it?

prawntoastie · 21/12/2020 00:30

I'm was spending Xmas on my own anyway so I don't care tbh

MrsTerryPratchett · 21/12/2020 00:59

@Inkpaperstars

When you look at the detail of this, as with all the rules but particularly now, what are the chances that vast swathes of the population just won’t put the time and/or thought into bothering to find out exactly what is allowed, let alone act on it?
The problem is you either have very easy but unfair rules, like 'stay at home' and everyone goes on about caring, and older people, and loneliness, and funerals and and and...

Or very complicated rules, 'stay at home unless it's the first full moon following the ides of March in a leap year' which is fairer but no one bothers to understand them.

It's extremely difficult. As someone who writes guidance and contracts, it's an impossible compromise every time. I don't blame the government. I think other countries have managed trust, empathy and kindness better but the actual content is difficult however you do it.

saraclara · 21/12/2020 01:09

My support bubble has been no use to me because one of them has covid so they've been isolating.

My friend is living in London in a bedsit. His support bubble is his brother and partner - who both have covid symptoms. So he's very likely having to isolate in his crappy bedsit for ten days over Christmas.

It. Is. Not. The. Same. For. Everyone.

And anyone preaching at me and saying I shouldn't care or that I shouldn't worry about my friend's mental health can do one, frankly. It's perfectly okay for people to be sad about this.