Will we be able to refuse treatment from NHS staff who refuse the vaccine?

[lunar1]

I don't mean now, but a few months down the line when they have all had the opportunity to be vaccinated.

DH had his first dose this morning, but there are many staff refusing. Given that it's going to be a long time before the majority of us are vaccinated, having treatment from vaccinated professionals seems a good way to reduce risks.

What rights does anyone think we will have regarding treatment?

Yes this thread is ridiculous. Suspect the nhs staff should be moved around the country according to need poster has name changed.

@BungleandGeorge wow, just wow! All vaccinations have side effects and you can't force somebody to take that risk? Please can you send a letter to all GP surgeries and the HV Association. That really isn't what parents are told who make the choices on behalf of their infants.

Re 15% take-up. If I have one thousand staff and offer free flu vacs and they are only taken up by 150 staff, I think I know who avails themselves of the flu vaccination - or freely does. Not NHS but quasi public sector.

@DayBath that’s irrelevant if the correct procedures/ppe are in place.

I can't have the vaccine as breast feeding, and having been given the mmr at every Trust I've worked at as I don't show the antibodies, and I refused to have another hep b vaccine since last time I had every side effect going including the heart palpitations, I'm not fully vaccinated, but am allowed to work as a hcp.

Its up to the patient if they want to state they don't want an unvaccinate staff member butmay find no one will confirm on way or another, let alone with proof. And just as they have had the vaccine, doesn't mean it was effective for them.

I don’t believe for a second that an NHS trust is allowing patients to choose clinicians based on their confidential health data. Managers don’t need to refer you to occupational health, that’s not the way the NHS works.
So whatever your personal opinions, no you can’t put in a request not to be treated by a member of staff according to their medical history. If you had particular health problems I’m sure it would be possible to accommodate requests for increased hygiene measures.

[quote Pomegranatespompom]@DayBath that’s irrelevant if the correct procedures/ppe are in place.[/quote]
Being 'covid secure' is a myth unless doctors want to wear full respirator suits to the outpatients department. Masks and visors reduce risks but not by enough for some patients. I'm taking about the ECV here, I know of two who have been refused urgent face to face care from their consultants because the risk far outweighs the harm caused by waiting, and the harm at home is significant.

No, nor should you.

Someone else’s medical information is naff all to do with you.

I will not be having the vaccine until there is confirmation it does not affect fertility. Very similar to a number of women I know.

Your medical decisions are your own, no one else’s. If it is legal to be fully unvaccinated against MMR and the like without any repercussions then how do you expect refusal of a COVID vaccine to be monitored?

You can't. It's like asking GeForce the medical records of every person who treats you. It's GDPR.

[quote RosesAndHellebores]@BungleandGeorge wow, just wow! All vaccinations have side effects and you can't force somebody to take that risk? Please can you send a letter to all GP surgeries and the HV Association. That really isn't what parents are told who make the choices on behalf of their infants.

Re 15% take-up. If I have one thousand staff and offer free flu vacs and they are only taken up by 150 staff, I think I know who avails themselves of the flu vaccination - or freely does. Not NHS but quasi public sector.[/quote]
How can you know that when a significant percentage will be eligible to have them at a GP surgery or will be able to buy them?
It’s clear that not all parents have their children vaccinated when you look at the % take up .
So you don’t work for the NHS then?

@DayBath I have an extremely vulnerable patient group- we have very good procedures in place. No positive cases despite multiple outpatient/daycare/ admissions.

I think you need to stop cherry picking and answer the questions Bungle. Did I say I worked for the NHS? I don't think so.

It's an interesting question. Also will the nhs stgg which are vaccinated be able not to treat anyone who chose not to be?

Oh, and it's only this year over 50's have been eligible for free flu jabs and that wasn't announced until mid/late November. Usually only 60+ get a free flu jab, or those with underlying eligible health conditions. Those categories don't make up a significant proportion of the staff base. Please stop making assumptions.

@RosesAndHellebores

Nobody should be forced to have the jab and exercise personal freedoms. However if public sector staff (and not just NHS staff) refuse to have the vaccine or any vaccine available, I am not sure they should retain the right to their very generous contractual sick pay schemes. For example six months full pay and six months half pay. I believe those contractual conditions need to be renegotiated.

It would be interesting to compare in a year or three the vaccine take up of those entitled only to SSP and those with generous public sector entitlements.

LOL. Good luck with that.

No one knows yet whether any of the vaccines will have real-world benefits or whether any immunity conferred will persist. We hope they will, but it is early days- way too early to be talking about compelling anyone to be vaccinated.

@DayBath routine appointment or emergency, if they say yes or no to have been vaccinated or not, there's no actual proof available of either, except the word of said NHS worker being asked .

@RosesAndHellebores

Nobody should be forced to have the jab and exercise personal freedoms. However if public sector staff (and not just NHS staff) refuse to have the vaccine or any vaccine available, I am not sure they should retain the right to their very generous contractual sick pay schemes. For example six months full pay and six months half pay. I believe those contractual conditions need to be renegotiated.

It would be interesting to compare in a year or three the vaccine take up of those entitled only to SSP and those with generous public sector entitlements.

Dodgy territory... why remove it for those not taking up vaccines but keep it for smokers and drinkers?

[quote 3littlewords]@DayBath routine appointment or emergency, if they say yes or no to have been vaccinated or not, there's no actual proof available of either, except the word of said NHS worker being asked .[/quote]
You must have very little faith in doctors and nurses if you think they would lie either way!!

Why would you refuse treatment? You do realise don't you that the vacancie protects them not you! They can still catch covid and pass it on adter vacs. All It means is it won't kill them. The only way you will be protected is if you get the vacs. So if you want to only be treated by someone who has had it go for it but you can STILL CATCH IT!!!!!

Should they refuse to treat you until you are vaccinated? What about that?

@DayBath personally it wouldn't bother me either way and I'd never be so rude to ask such question. However the only people who will know is the doctor/nurse themselves. Look at PP who said she doesnt want the vaccine as she is ttc and doesnt want her line manager to know, if a patient asks that question to PP if she's had the covid vaccine, is she going to lie to the patient or lie to her line manager? FWIW it's a question she should have to answer anyway, her body her choice.

@Piwlyfbicsly

Should they refuse to treat you until you are vaccinated? What about that?

This 100% . My FIL is invisible 70s and EVC refuses any flu or covid vaccine but would 100% expect the NHS staff to treat him should he succumb to flu or covid

[quote 3littlewords]@DayBath personally it wouldn't bother me either way and I'd never be so rude to ask such question. However the only people who will know is the doctor/nurse themselves. Look at PP who said she doesnt want the vaccine as she is ttc and doesnt want her line manager to know, if a patient asks that question to PP if she's had the covid vaccine, is she going to lie to the patient or lie to her line manager? FWIW it's a question she should have to answer anyway, her body her choice.[/quote]
I'm not sure what you're asking here. How does TTC affect her answer about whether or not she is vaccinated? A simple yes or no answer is all that would be required, the patient and the line manager don't need a full backstory on the reasons behind her decision so I'm not sure what you're getting at. Perhaps you think NHS staff are liars but I don't.

• in his 70s not invisible 🙈

@PlanDeRaccordement

No, and why would you? If you’re vaccinated you’re protected from the virus no matter whether it comes from a shopping trolly you touch or being touched by an unvaccinated person.

Besides in U.K. it looks like all under 18s won’t be vaccinated, should parents then refuse to touch their unvaccinated children?

The vaccine isn’t a magic forcefield. You still contract covid, they hope is that you his fight it off completely the first day before you are too symptomatic. So you might still get mild symptoms and can still spread it. You can also still spread it via contaminating tour hands on a surface and then say shaking hands with someone.

The point is - hcp are not obliged to answer. You are not entitled to know.