Will we be able to refuse treatment from NHS staff who refuse the vaccine?

[lunar1]

I don't mean now, but a few months down the line when they have all had the opportunity to be vaccinated.

DH had his first dose this morning, but there are many staff refusing. Given that it's going to be a long time before the majority of us are vaccinated, having treatment from vaccinated professionals seems a good way to reduce risks.

What rights does anyone think we will have regarding treatment?

This OP is actually hilarious.

DayBath

I presume you're some sort of covid denier who believes it's just the flu, or some other Facebook twaddle then.

Err No? I am a specialist nurse with 33 years experience.

*You do realise patients have the right to request a certain clinician if they are willing to wait on their list right?

Pretty common for female sexual assault survivors to ask for female doctors for intimate examinations for example. Doctors are pretty chill about it, it's people like you who seem to tear your hair out over other people's preferences for some reason, doctors and nurses in my experience are very relaxed as long as the patient isn't trying to jump any waiting lists. That's also the reason we are allowed to get a second opinion if we want one. Resources aren't allocated in the way you think, you don't just get one shot at treatment and then you're refused any further access if you don't want it at that particular time. That's why patients are allowed to go away and consider the pros and cons before deciding to have an operation for example. They may have to wait in line for a second appointment with the surgeon but it's all perfectly normal within the NHS.*

You do realise you are talking rubbish don't you? Won't be much use if you're having a heart attack, aneurysm, haemorrhage, seizure, collapse, stroke...…. Will you be asking for proof of our vaccination history then? No, thought not.

I actually think some patients will think they have the right to know whether we have had the vaccine or not

No.

None of your business, OP.

@ DayBath I’m sorry to hear that happened to your grandmother but that sounds like a serious failure to follow infection control procedures, nothing to do with the vaccination history of the medical staff and can hardly be compared.

Would someone honestly refuse treatment from an appropriately qualified medical professional who had not had the vaccine if they were seriously unwell? I am honestly dumbfounded!

[quote Motorina]@DayBath it does depend a bit on why the patient is asking. A female patient asking for a female gynaecologist - yes absolutely. A patient declining to see a non-white clinician? The door is over there, please use it...

In the case of the Covid jab (or any other medical issue) the patient has absolutely no entitlement to that information. If I were asked, I would say just that. That's not to protect my privacy (I want the vaccine as soon as it's rolled out to my area) but the privacy of my colleagues who may be - for example - trying to conceive and so choose not to have it.

And if they chose not to see me then so be it. I am the only one in my service with my particular combination of skills. Their other options are to decline care altogether, or to try and convince commissioners to fund an out of area referral. Good luck with that...

(There's a discussion of the race issue in particular at blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/02/13/roger-kline-what-if-a-patient-wants-to-choose-the-ethnicity-of-their-doctor/)[/quote]
I mean the racism thing is a pretty fucking offensive comparison to someone saying "am I safe around you without PPE and distancing" isn't it. That's a pretty low level to take this to and one that literally everyone in this thread should be aware of and condemn. It doesn't at all discredit my initial argument. You KNOW the reason people would ask if you've had the covid jab, it's a perfectly reasonable one.

And in case you aren't aware,some people CAN afford private care and will choose to access it. I think you will find the majority of clinicians who have the jab will be proud of that and want to tell their patients to encourage them to do the same. You may not want to share with them but lots of HCPs will want to shout it from the rooftops after the year they've had.

@Dannn

@ DayBath I’m sorry to hear that happened to your grandmother but that sounds like a serious failure to follow infection control procedures, nothing to do with the vaccination history of the medical staff and can hardly be compared.

Would someone honestly refuse treatment from an appropriately qualified medical professional who had not had the vaccine if they were seriously unwell? I am honestly dumbfounded!

If someone is seriously unwell I doubt they are in a position to even speak for themselves, they are probably bleeding out in A&E so this is a bloody daft question!! I clearly mentioned waiting lists and therefore I'm not talking about critical care pathways!!

@user1471562688

DayBath

I presume you're some sort of covid denier who believes it's just the flu, or some other Facebook twaddle then.

Err No? I am a specialist nurse with 33 years experience.

*You do realise patients have the right to request a certain clinician if they are willing to wait on their list right?

Pretty common for female sexual assault survivors to ask for female doctors for intimate examinations for example. Doctors are pretty chill about it, it's people like you who seem to tear your hair out over other people's preferences for some reason, doctors and nurses in my experience are very relaxed as long as the patient isn't trying to jump any waiting lists. That's also the reason we are allowed to get a second opinion if we want one. Resources aren't allocated in the way you think, you don't just get one shot at treatment and then you're refused any further access if you don't want it at that particular time. That's why patients are allowed to go away and consider the pros and cons before deciding to have an operation for example. They may have to wait in line for a second appointment with the surgeon but it's all perfectly normal within the NHS.*

You do realise you are talking rubbish don't you? Won't be much use if you're having a heart attack, aneurysm, haemorrhage, seizure, collapse, stroke...…. Will you be asking for proof of our vaccination history then? No, thought not.

See my other post, I'm not repeating myself for you.

My daughter wasn’t allowed to volunteer in local hospital unless they had her full vaccination history so not sure how staff will be allowed to work in hospitals without Covid-19 vaccine. Unless except/unable to

It is not the same as asking to see a specific clinician, or female clinician. That wouldn’t work in OP’s scenario because of the clinician’s right to confidentiality about their medical status/ personal circumstances.
Op would not know my dh’s vaccination status because she would have no right to that information.

@lunar1 my MIL is a district nurse. She’s never had the flu jab. You would never know. Just like covid vaccine or mmr tetanus and tb. You don’t HAVE to have it but would be advisable!

Daybath

You really haven't got a clue have you? You're embarrassing yourself. And by the way, were you one of the pious ones out clapping and clattering your saucepans in the summer for us? [wink

No, but I will, and do, challenge doctors and nurses who don't appear to be taking adequate precautions. Only last week, I was having an infusion in a room with several other day-patients. The nurse was going patient-to-patient with the blood pressure cuff and finger oxymeter, not sanitising them between patients and not changing gloves/apron between patients. I politely stopped her when it came to my turn and asked her to sanitise the equipment and change her protective gear. Lots of huffing and puffing, but frankly, I don't give a shit - it's my health (and life) they're risking.

Not in nhs land, but my dd works in a similar system. She was recently promoted, and had to have an updated vaccine history, from 8 weeks of age.
She has a flu jab lanyard.
Nurses in her area, she's not a nurse, get chocolate and entered in a raffle for an ipad.
Flu jab is not compulsory, there is a long list which are.

@DayBath

I think you will find the majority of clinicians who have the jab will be proud of that and want to tell their patients to encourage them to do the same

Why would they need to encourage pester anyone?

Doubt it, but being vaccinated should be mandatory in certain jobs healthcare, teachers, police etc

It’s ok op. We are having our vaccine status stamped on our heads after having it.

(Possibly shouldn’t put that out into the universe).

@lockeddownandcrazy

Doubt it, but being vaccinated should be mandatory in certain jobs healthcare, teachers, police etc

No, it shouldn't

Mandatory vaccination?! This is INSANE.

[quote trulydelicious]@lockeddownandcrazy

Doubt it, but being vaccinated should be mandatory in certain jobs healthcare, teachers, police etc

No, it shouldn't[/quote]
yes it should, people in those jobs know they are going to be in close contact with lots of others and are supposed to be looking after them not putting them at risk

How would you know? There could be reasons they could not have it, allergic reaction, pregnancy etc. Why should they discuss their personal information with you?

Are you going to ask those working in shops and will be coming into contact with you if they have been vaccinated? Are you going to ask everyone on a bus if they have been vaccinated and refuse to get on if they haven’t, are you going to ask if your children’s/grandchildren’s teachers are vaccinated and if not refuse to see them? And so it goes on

My daughter wasn’t allowed to volunteer in local hospital unless they had her full vaccination history so not sure how staff will be allowed to work in hospitals without Covid-19 vaccine - Unless/except unable to

Because as human being we are not guinea pigs to be experimented on perhaps?

No vaccine should ever be mandatory.

You know the NHS are short of clinicians right? They're not going to sack anyone for not having the vaccine

@user1471562688. I didn't clap for anyone, I found the whole thing rather embarrassing and I was far to busy in my NHS job to join in. I've worked with a fair few clinicians with your attitude of 'us' verses 'them', and I'm never very impressed by those who make assumptions about the qualifications of others based on their own inflated sense of self importance.