Will we be able to refuse treatment from NHS staff who refuse the vaccine?

[lunar1]

I don't mean now, but a few months down the line when they have all had the opportunity to be vaccinated.

DH had his first dose this morning, but there are many staff refusing. Given that it's going to be a long time before the majority of us are vaccinated, having treatment from vaccinated professionals seems a good way to reduce risks.

What rights does anyone think we will have regarding treatment?

I got a flu notepad one year 😎

[quote trulydelicious]@DayBath

I think you will find the majority of clinicians who have the jab will be proud of that and want to tell their patients to encourage them to do the same

Why would they need to encourage pester anyone?[/quote]
There's been a lot of news stories about this. SAGE are worried that uptake may not be sufficient for herd immunity due to anti vax propaganda going around on social media and general suspicion about the speed of development. So the government are recruiting celebrities to have their jab on camera and talk about it, to encourage others to do the same. The NHS is expected to follow suit and promote the vaccines, presumably with posters everywhere and articles in Trust newsletters and on websites with staff having their jabs. I'm quite happy to have my vaccine, I have no qualms. But the NHS will be expected to promote it the way it does with all governmental health campaigns and many HCPs will volunteer to do so.

It’s a requirement for me to be fully vaccinated - including the annual flu vaccine. I cannot work in ICU if I refuse. I believe there are medical exemptions for the very small number of people with a reason not to vaccinate. As you would expect, those people don’t tend to seek out work in an ICU where they are regularly exposed to serious infectious diseases.

I don’t personally know anyone who works in ICU who would even consider refusing in any event. But then putting people on ECMO does tend to focus the mind.

You’re not entitled to the information.
It won’t be mandatory. Some people don’t have immunity after vaccinations anyway- should they all be sacked?
People are not moved from their jobs I’d they don’t have the flu vaccine either. Much too short staffed for this.

@lockeddownandcrazy

Doubt it, but being vaccinated should be mandatory in certain jobs healthcare, teachers, police etc

You’re in close contact with many others, why shouldn’t it be mandatory for everyone then? Why should public servants have to give up their human rights?

I wouldn’t feel under any obligation to discuss my medical or vaccination history with anybody. A lot of nhs staff have already had the infection and have antibodies so the benefits of a vaccination in the short term may be debatable

This thread is actually batshit crazy

You can refuse treatment for whatever reason you like, that is 100% your right. They don't necessarily have to provide anyone else to care for you though...

@cologne4711

In DH's trust they wear a badge to say they have had their flu jab

Really? That's outrageous. It's nobody else's business.

You dont have to have it and you don't have to wear a badge or sticker. They check your vaccination history to make sure you don't catch anything. Nothing is mandatory.

@user1471562688. Glad to see your post has been deleted for personal insults. To answer the question you posed, you made assumptions about my qualifications to speak on this matter because you asked (to paraphrase) "were you clapping for us", so you are assuming I'm not part of the NHS and that somehow you know better than those who (in your mind) aren't.

I think you need to take a breather before hurling out more uncalled for abuse, people are trying to have a civilised discussion here.

Nobody should be forced to have the jab and exercise personal freedoms. However if public sector staff (and not just NHS staff) refuse to have the vaccine or any vaccine available, I am not sure they should retain the right to their very generous contractual sick pay schemes. For example six months full pay and six months half pay. I believe those contractual conditions need to be renegotiated.

It would be interesting to compare in a year or three the vaccine take up of those entitled only to SSP and those with generous public sector entitlements.

Clinicians would leave. The NHS cant cope with the staffing levels as they are.

No trust has a mandatory badge to show they’ve had the flu jab. I have the flu jab and was given a flu fighter badge which I’ve never worn. 90% of staff don’t bother with the badge.

You will have no right to know if someone has had the covid jab. Nhs staff aren’t going to be badged/marked/branded. And in fact my colleagues who have had it have been given a badge for covid jab.

I'm laughing at the idea of a patient asking me if I have had a vaccine

“ Nobody should be forced to have the jab and exercise personal freedoms. However if public sector staff (and not just NHS staff) refuse to have the vaccine or any vaccine available, I am not sure they should retain the right to their very generous contractual sick pay schemes. For example six months full pay and six months half pay. I believe those contractual conditions need to be renegotiated. ”

Interesting. What about, say, an employee who is breastfeeding her 18mo and therefore refuses the vaccine? Should she choose between stopping breastfeeding and having the terms of her contract altered as you describe? Is this her refusing the vaccine for a valid reason, in your view?

Well, maybe if I can refuse to treat eligible patients who refuse the flu vaccine. Which is well established and has been around years. As many hundreds of thousands do every year.

..and many NHS staff don't get six months full and half pay,
. I get nothing like that.

@gypsywater

I'm laughing at the idea of a patient asking me if I have had a vaccine

I think most patients who want this wouldn't actually wait until the day of their appointment to ask the question, they would phone the booking dept and request to be put with a clinician who was vaccinated. It would then be passed to the relevant manager of the clinical team to decide what to do with. If patients wait until the actual appointment it could be a waste of everyone's time if the HCP refuses to disclose or hasn't had it. In my experience patients are a lot more switched on about the value of appointments than they used to be and are generally a lot better at navigating special requests in advance.

@DayBath Because services really have the time for all that...

@RosesAndHellebores

Nobody should be forced to have the jab and exercise personal freedoms. However if public sector staff (and not just NHS staff) refuse to have the vaccine or any vaccine available, I am not sure they should retain the right to their very generous contractual sick pay schemes. For example six months full pay and six months half pay. I believe those contractual conditions need to be renegotiated.

It would be interesting to compare in a year or three the vaccine take up of those entitled only to SSP and those with generous public sector entitlements.

You need to have 5 years service to get that sick leave . Since you get a sickness review for more than 2 episodes in a year those with that benefit presumably haven’t taken a lot of time off sick.

@BungleandGeorge are you speaking for all of the public sector there? I suspect not. Also one episode of sickness can last for more than a year.

You’d be welcome to decline and pay privately.

And you could decline that too, if you like.

I’m NHS. I don’t think any of us care if you decline to allow us to care for you.

@CountessFrog

You’d be welcome to decline and pay privately.

And you could decline that too, if you like.

I’m NHS. I don’t think any of us care if you decline to allow us to care for you.

This

[quote gypsywater]@DayBath Because services really have the time for all that...[/quote]
We make time for a lot of that sort of thing already, it's really not much work at all, just a case of a manager allocating a specific patient to a specific HCP in the appointment system. If the managers don't want to be involved then, with the HCP's permission they can just tell the booking office to put all those requests into Dr Joe Bloggs' clinic in future. Booking clerks are constantly rearranging appointments because of people ringing up due to changes of plans etc, there's very little to it.

Presumably if demand were high enough and hospital management wanted to they could implement a check box in Rio or whatever system they're on to save the booking team from having to send emails. Managers can allocate special clinic codes to the dates that are staffed by vaccinated staff and then IT will just tie the two together. There would have to be a very high demand to do it though, but it would take any hassle out of it.